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People are basically good

People are basically good

Spirituality


Originally posted by @rajk999
Correct but it is a doctrine that is completely misunderstood and twisted by the church.

Jesus is the way means you have to follow His commandments
Jesus is the truth means that his words and commandments are truth and they must be followed
Jesus is the life means that in order to get eternal life one must follow the commandments.
Who has both the Fat ...[text shortened]... said unto him, .. if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17 KJV)
[/b]
You should read the whole chapter.


Originally posted by @kellyjay
You should read the whole chapter.
I did. Clearly you dont have a point otherwise you would have made it.


Originally posted by @rajk999
Correct but it is a doctrine that is completely misunderstood and twisted by the church.

Jesus is the way means you have to follow His commandments
Jesus is the truth means that his words and commandments are truth and they must be followed
Jesus is the life means that in order to get eternal life one must follow the commandments.
Who has both the Fat ...[text shortened]... said unto him, .. if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17 KJV)
[/b]
If "keeping the commandments is the key to eternal life", then why does Paul say "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Eternal life is a free gift that cannot be earned by "doing" anything.

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Originally posted by @secondson
If "keeping the commandments is the key to eternal life", then why does Paul say [b]"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by ...[text shortened]... h the law."

Eternal life is a free gift that cannot be earned by "doing" anything.[/b]
Jesus said about ten dozen times that eternal life is for those who follow his commandments. So this what you say .. Eternal life is a free gift that cannot be earned by doing anythingis contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Paul says that no flesh would be justified by the law of Moses and that Christian Gentiles are justified by faith in Christ Justification does not mean eternal life. Juustification is the process by which the death and resurrection of Christ paid for the sins of the world. Believers and the faithful in Christ who profess their faith, and baptised into Christ, are justified in that their past deeds and sins are wiped away and are born again into a new life in Christ, therefore made righteous by the blood of Christ.

This justification process does not guarantee eternal life. As Paul went into great pains to explain to Christians that eternal life comes from following the commandments of Christ and living righteously. Justified Christians can and will be barred from entry into the Kingdom of God if they do not live righteously.


Originally posted by @rajk999
Jesus said about ten dozen times that eternal life is for those who follow his commandments. So this what you say .. Eternal life is a free gift that cannot be earned by doing anythingis contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Paul says that no flesh would be justified by the law of Moses and that Christian Gentiles are justified by faith in Chri ...[text shortened]... tians can and will be barred from entry into the Kingdom of God if they do not live righteously.
Saved by grace. Salvation means eternal life. You've garbled up the gospel of Jesus Christ by assuming that one is declared righteous by what one does.

What one does can never earn them eternal life. If it did, then Christ died in vain.


I actually think of it as one of the paradoxes within Christianity and within man.

Man is good, and he is an ikon of God, and was created in the image of God...

Yet, he clearly is flawed on a fundamental level. Man is fallen, but he has within himself inherent dignity and amazing capacities.

A lot of people do not like it when you are committed to some paradox that seems to be almost meaningless because [I]it is saying two things at the same time,[/I] but that is just the fact of the matter. That is how it is.

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Originally posted by @secondson
Saved by grace. Salvation means eternal life. You've garbled up the gospel of Jesus Christ by assuming that one is declared righteous by what one does.

What one does can never earn them eternal life. If it did, then Christ died in vain.
Saved by Grace yes. But no eternal life unless the person lives righteously and does good works.

Those are the words of Paul. If you do not accept that then the one with the garbled up doctrine is you.


Originally posted by @secondson
If "keeping the commandments is the key to eternal life", then why does Paul say [b]"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by ...[text shortened]... h the law."

Eternal life is a free gift that cannot be earned by "doing" anything.[/b]
Yes, Romans 3.

I've posted Romans 3 here in its entirety many times, they argue against it every time.


It's hard to believe anyone would support the claim that everyone is basically good, after spending just a few minutes in these forums. 😵


Originally posted by @suzianne
Yes, Romans 3.

I've posted Romans 3 here in its entirety many times, they argue against it every time.
Justification is not eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
Maybe you should tell your pastor that Paul wrote more than Romans 3


Originally posted by @rajk999
I did. Clearly you dont have a point otherwise you would have made it.
Doing what is expected isn’t enough we must follow Jesus.


Originally posted by @kellyjay
Doing what is expected isn’t enough we must follow Jesus.
Did I say anything about 'doing what is expected' and it being enough?
How is that relevant to what I said.

You seem to have a problem with expressing yourself clearly. One minute you write brief and vague comments making the excuse that you are on your phone and cannot write properly. Next when you are in front your computer you quote dozens of irrelevant passages with no comments or irrelevant comments.

You need to sit and think more so that when you write you are precise, concise and clear in your meaning.

Take my posts as some examples.

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Originally posted by @rajk999
Justification is not eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
Maybe you should tell your pastor that Paul wrote more than Romans 3
Yes, and a pile of other crap that has nothing to do with the message of Jesus.


Originally posted by @suzianne
Yes, and a pile of other crap that has nothing to do with the message of Jesus.
If you can call the message of Paul a pile of crap then there are atheists who will see the Kingdom of God before you. You are a sick damaged woman.


Originally posted by @rajk999
Did I say anything about 'doing what is expected' and it being enough?
How is that relevant to what I said.

You seem to have a problem with expressing yourself clearly. One minute you write brief and vague comments making the excuse that you are on your phone and cannot write properly. Next when you are in front your computer you quote dozens of irrele ...[text shortened]... you write you are precise, concise and clear in your meaning.

Take my posts as some examples.
Doing good works is what we are supposed to do, so doing them is what exspected nothing more. Believing in Jesus is doing the Work of God.

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