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Originally posted by KellyJayActually, what Jesus is saying there is, "I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'"
I think you and I are in agreement on this verse, there are many people who
think because they do "religious works" or "spiritual works" that is their ticket
into heaven, because both groups are people who are relying on some work
they did.
Where we part is what Jesus is saying here...He knows His sheep and they
know him. They will be doing good ...[text shortened]... roduct of knowing God
through Jesus Christ, but Jesus is our Savior not our efforts.
Kelly[/b]
Note that the entirety of 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity' is directed toward the same people. Clearly one cannot continue to commit sin, i.e. "work iniquity", and have a 'personal relationship with Jesus'.
Can't fathom how you're getting Jesus is saying, "He knows His sheep and they know him. They will be doing good works as a byproduct of knowing God
through Jesus Christ, but Jesus is our Savior not our efforts" out of that.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou seem so uncertain and helpless, almost as if you were to the manor born and became lazy and accustomed to servants
I guess I'll have to count 'Mere Christianity' as something you don't "place your confidence and trust".
at your beck and call. Wake up. Make some effort yourself. You really feigned your interest well. So much for face value.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHow disingenuous. I've had the following to say on this topic:
You seem so uncertain and helpless, almost as if you were to the manor born and became lazy and accustomed to servants
at your beck and call. Wake up. Make some effort yourself. You really feigned your interest well. So much for face value.
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I'm not completely unfamiliar with Lewis. I haven't found what excerpts I've read of his writings to be particularly well thought out nor at all compelling...If you have some written excerpts that you think particularly well thought out and compelling, then by all means provide them.
Clearly I haven't found what I've read by Lewis worthwhile. You're the one trying to "sell" Lewis. So "sell" him with a few excerpts that show that he might be worthwhile instead of trying to make a nonsensical claim that I am " lazy and accustomed to servants".
Are you really so self-centered that you can't fathom that someone might need something more than your recommendation of Lewis? If you believe that there are nuggets to be found, then show me some nuggets.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYour right, sorry my bad.
Actually, what Jesus is saying there is, "I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'"
Note that the entirety of 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity' is directed toward the same people. Clearly one cannot continue to commit sin, i.e. "work iniquity", and have a 'personal relationship with Jesus'.
...[text shortened]... God
through Jesus Christ, but Jesus is our Savior not our efforts" out of that.
The focus is knowing Jesus Christ, the rest I was throwing in from other
scripture you didn't bring up, I'm wrong here, your right.
Kelly
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneJ.C. is a taciturn sort. He doesn't call, he doesn't write. Huh! Yet he seems to find plenty of time to show up on toast, tree stumps, and oil stains on parking lots!
Came across the following article where the author describes his struggles with understanding "what exactly is a ‘personal relationship with Jesus.’?". I found the section in BOLD particularly interesting. Comments?The problem I had was that I felt more and more that the ‘personal relationship with Jesus’ was more ‘personal’ than ‘Jesus’. As I ...[text shortened]... /www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2008/03/personal-relationship-with-jesus.html
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDoesn't He say He never knew them?
Actually, what Jesus is saying there is, "I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'"
Note that the entirety of 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity' is directed toward the same people. Clearly one cannot continue to commit sin, i.e. "work iniquity", and have a 'personal relationship with Jesus'.
...[text shortened]... God
through Jesus Christ, but Jesus is our Savior not our efforts" out of that.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFSalvation depends on Him and the substitutionary spiritual death he died on a hill. Faith alone in Christ alone... you're in and nothing you can ever think or do changes your status one iota. Rightly understood, by a subsequent volitional act you stopped growing in stature and in the acquisition of the Mind of Christ. In so doing, you're now incapable of glorifying Him or benefiting other believers or providing accurate scriptural information to unbelievers whose eternal futures hangs in the balance. Your call, however, if you wish to remain an ignorant infant on earth. Your call, FMF, if you wish to strut around in heaven as a happy pauper forever.
I stopped believing. Simple as that. Do you think I should have pretended to believe?
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Originally posted by KellyJayYes. Jesus says, "I never knew you" to those who continue to sin, i.e., "work iniquity". Clearly one cannot continue to commit sin and have a 'personal relationship with Jesus'. Yet many claim to have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' even though they do continue to commit sin. This helps explain the author's observation that each seemed to have his own "Jesus" made in his own image.
Doesn't He say He never knew them?
Kelly
On a personal note, I can't think of anyone I've come across who claimed to have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' who didn't also claim that they continue to commit sin because they believed it impossible not to. They made this claim despite the fact that Jesus said that He would say, "I never knew you" to those who continue to commit sin. What do you think is going on with them?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI understand what you say. I am fully aware of what you Christians tell yourselves. While it is your prerogative to do so in a forum like this, telling it to me does not add any credence to what you believe.
Salvation depends on Him and the substitutionary spiritual death he died on a hill. Faith alone in Christ alone... you're in and nothing you can ever think or do changes your status one iota. Rightly understood, by a subsequent volitional act you stopped growing in stature and in the acquisition of the Mind of Christ. In so doing, you're now incapable o ...[text shortened]... on earth. Your call, FMF, if you wish to strut around in heaven as a happy pauper forever.
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