@divegeester said
I prefer the half a dozen scriptures I gave you, thanks.

No surprise that you are a "cafeteria Christian".

@divegeester said
Oh don’t run away!

How is it you can “swallow the camel” of the demands for child sacrifice by your god based on virtually no scripture at all… and yet you refuse to believe this “fly” of predestination based on several scriptures?

Just shut up, go into your private room, and listen to God instead of badgering Him with your clever yet petty little demands.

Or be honest with everyone and drop the pretense that you are in any sense a Christian.

@kevin-eleven said
No surprise that you are a "cafeteria Christian".

“Cafeteria Christianity is a derogatory term used by some Christians, and others, to accuse other Christian individuals or denominations of selecting which Christian doctrines they will follow, and which they will not” Also referenced are “cafeteria catholics”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christians

Although stated in wiki as being a “derogatory term” I think it applies to all Christians and probably all adherents of all religions, so I’m quite happy with your attempt to label me as such.

What is interesting is that you see it as being a little win for you of some sort without considering the underlying causality, the endemic breath of the principle itself and how you didn’t pick up Galveston75 for his obvious and quite extreme denial of the widely documented (in the Bible) “predestination”, while holding to the JW specific and extremely dangerous doctrine of withholding blood transfusions I.e. “abstaining from blood”.

But that you I suppose. At least you are back in the Ghost Chamber, for the time being at least.

@divegeester said
“Cafeteria Christianity is a derogatory term used by some Christians, and others, to accuse other Christian individuals or denominations of selecting which Christian doctrines they will follow, and which they will not” Also referenced are “cafeteria catholics”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christians

Although stated in wiki as being a “derogatory term” I ...[text shortened]...

But that you I suppose. At least you are back in the Ghost Chamber, for the time being at least.

Thank you, Very Gooster.

@kevin-eleven said
Just shut up, go into your private room, and listen to God instead of badgering Him with your clever yet petty little demands.
Or be honest with everyone and drop the pretense that you are in any sense a Christian.

Why try to close the discussion down?

@divegeester said
I m not responsible for your below average reading comprehension, low IQ and your angry disposition which clouds your judgement.

Maybe that's your problem. You don't have any responsibilities, nor does it appear you have a sense of accountability.

@divegeester said
Yes, very much so.

I’ve laid out the NT scriptures for predestination on page one of this thread, why don’t you go read them instead of ignoring them like all the other deniers are such as KellyJay and Galveston75.

Get back to me then.

Don't be such a jerk.

Seems we may agree on something.

I think predestination may be linked to providence. It is biblically evident that God is not benign, but is active in the affairs of men, in every conceivable way.

Man plays his part, and God will act one way or the other, sovereignly, not only accordingly, but in spite of man's cooperation.

Man needs to get with God's program, or get left behind.

@josephw said
You don't have any responsibilities, nor does it appear you have a sense of accountability.

On what are you basing this silly, lash-out observation?

@josephw said
Don't be such a jerk.

Looking back at much of your seemingly intoxicated posting over the last 48hours, I’d say it is you who are being a jerk.

@josephw said
Seems we may agree on something.

Well you have stated that you think I’m a “good poster”.

@josephw said
I think predestination may be linked to providence.

In what way?

@josephw said
It is biblically evident that God is not benign, but is active in the affairs of men, in every conceivable way.

God is not benign?

@divegeester said
Some references.

Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the ...[text shortened]... been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain

You quoted the verses, but what does it mean to be "predestinated"?

In Isaiah 46:10 God says, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

God knows everything there is to know past, present and future, and He acts, "declares", what shall be.

God "chooses" and "predestines" because He knew all those that would believe. I don't believe that means God "chose" who would believe, or who wouldn't, in the sense that He picked and caused, because then "freewill" would have no meaning.

The act of "choosing" and "predestinating" means God "declared" ,to be, the object to which one is "predestinated", to be "conformed" to.

It is God's will that all be saved, but because He knew from the beginning who would or wouldn't believe, God "declared" what, and in whom, believers would be "predestinated" to "be conformed" to.

@josephw said
You quoted the verses, but what does it mean to be "predestinated"?

Christians in this thread keep asking me this as though my thinking I know what it means, or my not knowing what it means, somehow negates that fact that the bible is unequivocal that predestination exists. However if one reads those scriptures I think it is quite clear what it means. Some people just don’t want to believe it.

I have already acknowledged that there is also plenty of evidence for free will. The apparent contradiction also does not negate that predestination is a fact…notwithstanding the freewill element.

I also made an observation that spirits descending as doves, Jesus praying to the father in his fleshly form, or him being “made lower than the angels” etc … does not mean that we have to invent a three person godhead in order to understand the mystery that God actually ONE person.

@galveston75 said

When you use the word predestination, what is it you are asking?
1. We have no choice. God wrote a play, and we are doing our parts.
2. We choose a given right and gift; then those choices predestinated us to grace?
3. Something else?