@rajk999 saidWhy don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.
Yes, predestined Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel. Galveston believes it applies to JW elders and nobody else
@galveston75 saidLets see. Are the 144,000 referred to in Revelation, Jehovah Witnesses? Some are ? What? Are they predestined? I dont need all the facts. I need some facts to get a conversation going. If you back out then you think that people need to study your religion before commenting. Well nobody cares so much
Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think only because of first (God) is the second possible.
I think the first holds back the second.
@pb1022 saidI done believe in predestination as you always have a choice. So when people say “there is nothing we can do” it probably means there is nothing that springs to kind, or maybe they feel too helpless emotionally, but you can always do something.
Partially true.
I believe some people are predestined to be saved.
But I don’t think anyone’s predestined to be damned.
Too many verses go against the idea that everyone’s destiny is sealed the moment they’re born.
Plus, it’s not (imo) fair at all to predestine someone to be damned without giving him the choice of whether he wants to be born.
Then we get into the question of if God (should you believe in him) can look into your future and see what you are likely to do, which is not the same as predestination. Could God look at you and your probability of being saved? I think so.
@galveston75 saidIf I may ask, do you not get any guidance on proselytizing from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania?
Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.
@medullah saidThere are a few schools of thought; God is total control; we are just running through a script, the end is set, there are no real choices. Another, God gives up His sovereignty to give us total freedom to choose. I'm in the camp that God never gives up His sovereignty; otherwise, He would stop being God, and He has given us the ability to choose, and He will respect and honor each choice made by us, even if it is something He doesn't want to occur. You cannot give someone the ability to love without giving them the ability to say no; there are many of us saying no to each other here and elsewhere.
I like this post. One question though.
Are the predestined predestined at the outset (birth) or do they become predestined after they have first met a certain set of criteria? I don’t know or have a hidden answer as I have only just noticed this (so thanks for posting).
-Removed-We answer God is a better way of putting it in my opinion; He calls we either respond or not; we make that choice. We would not choose God if He didn't call us; we would be very content the way we are. Christianity has some very steep things about answering God's call; Jesus says to pick up our crosses and follow Him, so there is the dying to one's self, the world is full of temptation, we shun them, it isn't an easy thing, it is, however, worth more than all of the contents of the whole world. What good is it getting the world if we lose our souls?
