Originally posted by Rajk999I have to laugh Rajk999, you are so much a thorn in the side of Sonship he gives you your own forum sight. Celebrity has its price. ha ha. Better you than me, i have plenty of my own enemies. The armor of God will prevail.
That they would at least accept that some of their doctrines are far-fetched.
Originally posted by PudgenikJaywill/Sonship and I have been going at it for several years.
I have to laugh Rajk999, you are so much a thorn in the side of Sonship he gives you your own forum sight. Celebrity has its price. ha ha. Better you than me, i have plenty of my own enemies. The armor of God will prevail.
I have to laugh as well Pudgenik. Little do you realise that you are fast becoming a 'celebrity' as well. In the short few days that you have been around here Im pretty sure that your words have stirred him up [and others as well]. He is going to give you your own thread soon.
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Originally posted by sonshipGod does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as “sin that does incur death.”—1 John 5:16.
Typo edited:
The Bible does tell the Christian not to GRIEVE the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30). But grieving is an indication of LOVE. It does not say do not anger the Holy Spirit but do not [edited] grieve the Holy Spirit.
Where there is HATE there is ANGER. Where there is GRIEVING there is LOVE.
You are busted Jaywill, give it up!
Mark 3:28-29
New International Version (NIV)
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
Did i say busted, yup, busted! Someone please hand over Jaywill to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that he may be brought to his senses.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTo respond to Robbie's challenge readers should prepare for a possible long response.
God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: “If we practice sin willfully [b]after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fe ...[text shortened]... over Jaywill to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that he may be brought to his senses.[/b]
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Originally posted by sonshipoh hell no, please jaywill spare us, I managed to get my point across is a single paragraph, why cant you? You know i hardly read more than the first two or three paragraphs. There should be a reasonable limit, not like twitter, but within reason. Have mercy!
To respond to Robbie's challenge readers should prepare for a possible long response.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBecause I CARE for good understanding and not quick scoring of points.
oh hell no, please jaywill spare us, I managed to get my point across is a single paragraph, why cant you? You know i hardly read more than the first two or three paragraphs.
You can be right but not fully right. Why has to be explained.
You can say something which has truth but is not the whole truth.
Why that may be so has to be examined carefully.
You underestimate the amount of detail Bible students have given to problems like this in the past. You think we have not noticed your Mark passage ??? We have.
Originally posted by sonshipthere is no problem if you come to scripture without extra Biblical concepts.
Because I CARE for good understanding and not quick scoring of points.
You can be right but not fully right. Why has to be explained.
You can say something which has truth but is not the whole truth.
Why that may be so has to be examined carefully.
You underestimate the amount of detail Bible students have given to problems like this in the past. You think we have not noticed your Mark passage ??? We have.
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God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven.
Let's look at the passage.
Mark 3:27-30 "Truly I say to you that all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they blaspheme, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.
He said this because they said, He has an unclean spirit."
The passage has a positive message and a negative message. Plus an very interesting clue about the Christian life.
1.) The Positive Message ALL ... ALL sins will be forgiven the sons of men ... etc.
Whatever blasphemies, crimes, murders, bad things, hypocritical things, public sins, private sins, repeated sins, habitual sins, invisible sins, ignorant sins, willful sins, unwillful sins, any and every kind of sins can be forgiven those who come to the Lord Jesus.
Stop thinking that your sin cannot be cleansed in the blood of Jesus.
That is the positive message. And it is great release into joy.
2.) The Negative Message - There is however a sin which will not be forgiven which is an everlasting sin.
After much study I have come to the conclusion that no one really knows exactly what Jesus meant by this unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
I probably lean toward the interpretation that it is a sin that only those who were present at the when Jesus was on the earth during those years of His ministry, could possibly commit.
Though I am not sure, this seems to be reasonable because of the words - "He said this because they said, He has an unclean spirit."
Possibly, being present with the incarnated Christ and seeing and knowing the works of power the man performed, for them to accuse Him of having an unclean spirit may have been their everlasting sin. Maybe it is a sin which is no longer possible for men to commit.
I do not know for sure that this is the meaning. But too many Christians have wrecked up their spiritual walk because Satan accused them and made them think that they committed a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Satan's exploitation of the passage leads me to think it is not a sin possible to commit in the church age. You all can make up your own minds. As for me, I would teach seekers and prospective Christians the Positive Message -
"ALL SINS WILL BE FORGIVEN ...". I think there is much more written in the New Testament to testify to this fact.
3.) An Interesting Clue
Jesus implied that there is forgiveness in THIS church age and there is the possibility of forgiveness in the age to come. The age to come would be the thousand year millennial kingdom.
You would not notice this in the Mark passage. But in the parallel passage of Matthew 12:32 you would -
Matthew 12:32 - And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the one to come."
Notice - "neither IN THIS AGE" - before the second coming of Christ.
"nor THE ONE [AGE] TO COME - the thousand year millennium after the second coming of Christ.
The implication is that SOME sins are forgiven in the church age and SOME sins will be forgiven in the age to come, the millennium. Sins not forgiven in this age may be forgiven in the age to come, the millennium.
Notice the Apostle John writes - "If we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
Problem:
Suppose the Christian has sins that he never confesses?
Suppose he has a grudge against another Christian that he never gets over?
Suppose the Christian DIES and never confessed a certain besetting sin?
Suppose Jesus comes back but she has unconfessed sins which she never wanted to confess?
Those sins have to be confessed some time. The Christian during his life after believing tolerated those sins to remain. He never acknowledged that they indeed WERE sins even though the Holy Spirit convicted him. Maybe he just had a secret sin he loved too much. Maybe long after being saved he never said "Lord Jesus I agree with you. THIS thing is indeed a sin. Please forgive me."
Matthew 12:32 implies that there is forgiveness dispensed in this age and forgiveness dispensed in the age to come.
If a Christian has not confessed and dealt with a sin in this age, in the next age of the millennium he will have to confess and deal with that sin. Then that sin will be forgiven in "THE ONE [AGE] TO COME".
However, that is not the age of grace. That is the age of the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens. The flavor, the atmosphere of that dealing with sins will not be the same as it is today. We do not know what it will be like. But I wager that it will not be pleasant.
What sins were not confessed and dealt with in the age of grace will have to be confessed and dealt with, being forgiven in the age to come. The atmosphere will be more of the KINGDOM discipline.
But concerning a truly unforgivable eternal sin ? No one seems to know for sure what that is. Maybe it is something only those present at the time could commit. Maybe it amounts to a rejection of Jesus Christ altogether.
I don't know for sure. And I would not worry about it. Rather I would put the emphasis on " the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from every sin." (1 John 1:7b). All manner of sins will be forgiven men.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: “If we practice sin willfully [b]after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fe ...[text shortened]... over Jaywill to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that he may be brought to his senses.[/b]
practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Heb. 10:26, 27)
This verse is addressed to Jews who were immersed in Judaism. If after hearing the truth they reject Jesus, there is no more sacrifice.
It is not addressed to Christians who were already saved and subject to Jesus.
This is the whole context of Hebrews chapter 10..in fact the whole book of Hebrews is to establish the point that sins have been wiped out forever by ONE sacrifice.
Many churches, especially JW's like to twist the truth to maintain control over their people through fear of condemnation and Hell fire.
http://www.jcblog.net/hebrews/10/26-27/no-other-sacrifice-for-sin-is-left-only-judgment
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Originally posted by checkbaiterI have been patient enough with you checkbaiter, never the less, your statement is utterly false, why? because Paul states quite clearly,
This verse is addressed to Jews who were immersed in Judaism. If after hearing the truth they reject Jesus, there is no more sacrifice.
It is not addressed to Christians who were already saved and subject to Jesus.
This is the whole context of Hebrews chapter 10..in fact the whole book of Hebrews is to establish the point that sins have been wiped ...[text shortened]... fire.
http://www.jcblog.net/hebrews/10/26-27/no-other-sacrifice-for-sin-is-left-only-judgment
If WE practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth notice how he includes himself checkbaiter! IF WE.
this was addressed to Hebrews who had become Christians, who had already received the accurate knowledge of truth, I really wonder if you are reading the same book as me at times, really, I do.
Where in the passage does it state that it was addressed to Jews who were immersed in Judaism and after hearing the truth reject Jesus, nowhere, your assertions therefore of twisting things falls back on you, for its you yourself who are interjecting elements not explicitly stated in the passage, oh dear, how embarrassing for you, but then again, i understand that being devoid of reasons, you need to fabricate some.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterMany churches, especially JW's like to twist the truth to maintain control over their people through fear of condemnation and Hell fire.practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Heb. 10:26, 27)
This verse is addressed to Jews who were immersed in Judaism. If after hearing the truth they reject Jesus, there is no more sacrifi ...[text shortened]... fire.
http://www.jcblog.net/hebrews/10/26-27/no-other-sacrifice-for-sin-is-left-only-judgment
Jehovah witnesses do not profess belief in Hellfire, for goodness sake can you not even get your stereotypes and prejudices right?