Refuting Rajk999ism

In the New Testament there are Five forms of forgiveness. I will not elaborate now. But the five forms of forgiveness are:

1.) God's eternal forgiveness - (Related to the problem of eternal salvation.)

2.) Forgiveness through God's people - ( Related to the problem of fellowship between God's children. This is forgiveness through a person or through the forgiving church.)

3.) Forgiveness to restore fellowship - (Related to normal communion with the God in practical peaceful fellowship.)

4.) The forgiveness of God's discipline. (Related to the way God as a Father, disciplines His children.)

5.) The forgiveness in the millennial kingdom - (Related to the forgiveness in the age to come (Matt. 12:32).

Examples of each of these Five forms of New Testament forgiveness may follow. Or I may open a whole thread dedicated to this.

Originally posted by sonship

God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven.

Let's look at the passage.

[b]Mark 3:27-30 "Truly I say to you that all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they blaspheme, but whoever blas ...[text shortened]... His Son cleanses us from every sin." (1 John 1:7b). All manner of sins will be forgiven men.[/b]

You don't understand the passage therefore you simply brush it under the carpet and repeatedly claim the exact opposite, let me say this quite plainly, you are talking absolute nonsense and have no idea what it is you are talking about.

The passage states that there are sins that will not be forgiven eternally, your doctrine is therefore refuted and false, may I suggest that you ditch it and revise your stance in accordance with Gods word, the Bible.

but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have been patient enough with you checkbaiter, never the less, your statement is utterly false, why? because Paul states quite clearly,

If WE practice sin willfully [b]after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth notice how he includes himself checkbaiter! IF WE.

this was addressed to Hebrews who had become Christians, who h ...[text shortened]... for you, but then again, i understand that being devoid of reasons, you need to fabricate some.[/b]

Interjecting elements explicitly not stated in the text. You mean like claiming Jesus is Archangel Michael? 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
oh hell no, please jaywill spare us, I managed to get my point across is a single paragraph, why cant you? You know i hardly read more than the first two or three paragraphs. There should be a reasonable limit, not like twitter, but within reason. Have mercy!

Serves you right 😀
Maybe you should do like me and dont reply ...

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Interjecting elements explicitly not stated in the text. You mean like claiming Jesus is Archangel Michael? 🙂

on the contrary, its clear the Christ is the archangel, we have scriptural proof, perhaps on another occasion i can take you through it for your enlightenment and edification 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Serves you right 😀
Maybe you should do like me and dont reply ...

its outrageous what they are claiming! now contrary to popular belief, I respect jaywill and checkbaiter, they will probably go away and pray about this, I know jaywill does, hes very sincere, but they are carrying baggage to the scriptures and its weighing them down. This idea of once saved always saved, it appears to me to be a form of Calvinism and predestination. Its interesting, id like to know the origin of the belief, but it seems prevalent among born again, evangelical types.

As I suspected, its pure Calvinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints

You don't understand the passage therefore you simply brush it under the carpet and repeatedly claim the exact opposite, let me say this quite plainly, you are talking absolute nonsense and have no idea what it is you are talking about.

I did not "brush it under the carpet."

The passage states that there are sins that will not be forgiven eternally,

I agreed with that and stated the same.

My reply included these words:

2.) The Negative Message - There is however a sin which will not be forgiven which is an everlasting sin.

After much study I have come to the conclusion that no one really knows exactly what Jesus meant by this unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

I probably lean toward the interpretation that it is a sin that only those who were present at the when Jesus was on the earth during those years of His ministry, could possibly commit.

Though I am not sure, this seems to be reasonable because of the words - "He said this because they said, He has an unclean spirit."

I said that I am not completely sure what it means to commit that particular sin.

I submitted what I lean towards as an interpretation and I gave a back up possible alternative meaning.

Nothing was "swept under the carpet."

your doctrine is therefore refuted and false, may I suggest that you ditch it and revise your stance in accordance with Gods word, the Bible.

It is not refuted.
Maybe rebutted (though I haven't seen much of that either).
Refuted? I don't think so.

There is a difference between a rebuttal and a refutation.

Originally posted by sonship

You don't understand the passage therefore you simply brush it under the carpet and repeatedly claim the exact opposite, let me say this quite plainly, you are talking absolute nonsense and have no idea what it is you are talking about.

I did not "brush it under the carpet."

[quote]
The passage states that there are sins that wil ...[text shortened]... er).
Refuted? I don't think so.

There is a difference between a rebuttal and a refutation.

wikipedia has an excellent article on the arguments and counter arguments, but the whole doctrine reeks of Calvinism and predestination. I suggest that you pray about it sincerely jaywill and I say that in sincerity! Calvin cannot be trusted, he tried to stop us dancing and drinking whisky!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
As I suspected, its pure Calvinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints

I did not look at your link only because of time and it not being really necessary to me.

Where I depart from pure Calvinism can be seen by the discerning reader.
If you cannot see where what I have written is not completely Calvin's doctrine then you need to be informed WHERE the difference is.

I don't think you care though.

Oh, by the way. You said something like SINS [plural] which never receive forgiveness forever. But what the Lord Jesus said was a PARTICULAR SIN.

Read it again sometime.

Originally posted by sonship
I did not look at your link only because of time and it not being really necessary to me.

Where I depart from pure Calvinism can be seen by the discerning reader.
If you cannot see where what I have written is not completely Calvin's doctrine then you need to be informed WHERE the difference is.

I don't think you care though.

Oh, by the way. ...[text shortened]... s forever. But what the Lord Jesus said was [i]a PARTICULAR SIN.

Read it again sometime.[/b]

I care enough to find out about the doctrines origins, the article that i cited is very interesting, but lengthy and presents all the Calvinistic arguments as well as those who are opposed, you cannot get fairer than that. Differences in nuance are immaterial to me, sorry, but you are correct, Christ did mention a particular type of sin.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
wikipedia has an excellent article on the arguments and counter arguments, but the whole doctrine reeks of Calvinism and predestination. I suggest that you pray about it sincerely jaywill and I say that in sincerity! Calvin cannot be trusted, he tried to stop us dancing and drinking whisky!

You are still ignorant. Let me tell you where you are ignorant.

All the passages in the NT which speak of the punishment of servants of Christ Calvin interpreted as pertaining to FALSE Christians.

All the same passages Arminians say pertain to Real Christians who LOST there eternal salvation.

What I have presented for YEARS on this Forum is that these disputed passages pertain to REAL Christians but Temporary Dispensational punishment.

The umpteen passages in the NT which seem to suggest a Christian loses his salvation do not pertain to FALSE Christians and do not pertain to eternal punishment.

They pertain to punishment during the thousand year millennium.

Having said that, SOME of the passages are taken by Catholics to pertain to Purgatory. I do not teach or believe in Purgatory.

I do teach that some saved eternally can be disciplined in the millennial age to come of one thousand years. They are SAVED yet so as through fire. They suffer loss. They do not suffer eternal loss.

Originally posted by sonship
I did not look at your link only because of time and it not being really necessary to me.

Where I depart from pure Calvinism can be seen by the discerning reader.
If you cannot see where what I have written is not completely Calvin's doctrine then you need to be informed WHERE the difference is.

I don't think you care though.

Oh, by the way. ...[text shortened]... s forever. But what the Lord Jesus said was a PARTICULAR SIN.

Read it again sometime.

the way that we understand, sinning against the holy spirit is quite interesting, take for example the Pharisees, who were opposed to Christ. Christ healed a man with a withered hand of which they were eye witnesses of the operation of Gods Holy spirit, Christ said to them, if you do not believe me, believe on account of the works themselves, yet they conspired to kill him, despite having been eyewitnesses of the operation of Gods Holy spirit, this is an inexcusable sin against the Holy spirit, for its willful!

Christ did mention a particular type of sin.

Good of you to acknowledge a mistake.