08 Oct 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziI do not believe anyone has said we will not be doing good works, only that
the way it is worded means professing that jesus is the savior is enough to be saved. that if you believe he was raised from the dead will automatically get you a ticket to the green pastures.
faith without works is meaningless.
our faith saves us through Jesus Christ, the works will come as a direct
result. We are not saved by the works we do, if you wish to stand before
God relying on your works, I don't think there are enough good works to
do that will clean you from your sin. The great thing about Jesus Christ, is
He cleans us of our sins, the Holy Spirit will lead us and guide us the way
we go which is in my opinion leading us to do the will of God, our good
works without God's Spirit you'll not be doing God's work, but yours which
will puff you up before God and man.
Kelly
08 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat is clear about those people who list their good works as the REASON
Arminian's? Why don't you discuss the text (with brevity) on its own merits, its clear that there are those who say they profess Christ and those who are actually DOING the will of the father. What is there to discuss, the text is rather explicit and clear. No one is objecting to Romans 10:9, what they find objectionable, is your insistence that its all that is necessary, a nonsense as Matthew 7:21 clearly demonstrates.
they should be accepted by Christ find that their works were NOT enough.
In order to do the will of God you better have the Spirit of God, without
God's Spirit you do not belong to Him. So doing everything you can do
including all the good works you can think of will be meaningless.
Kelly
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
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08 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipA couple of typos in this post make me sound like I am saying the opposite of what I really mean. A few sloppy sentences are there.
If the Hebrew believers had abandoned the church, the assembling together and returned to Judaism, there would remain no sacrifice for sins in the economy of God. And no other sacrifice for sins would be necessary or possible.
All the sacrifices of the old covenant had been altogether REPLACED by the ONE sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary. There Christ ...[text shortened]... no longer His people.
However the writer said [b]"The Lord will judge HIS ... people." [/b]
These sloppy sentences need correction. [Edited]
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziFaith without love is meaningless. it is Christ who wrks through us. It is love, as Christ is love.
the way it is worded means professing that jesus is the savior is enough to be saved. that if you believe he was raised from the dead will automatically get you a ticket to the green pastures.
faith without works is meaningless.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by PudgenikI agree with you that the love of God and God's love for all of us should be
Faith without love is meaningless. it is Christ who wrks through us. It is love, as Christ is love.
our motivation. Without that we could than deem some as unworthy of our
help or care, we could hold ourselves back from doing anything for anyone
because we deem them unworthy of our care; however, because Jesus
died for all of us, we should reach out to all so that Jesus receives the
reward for His suffering for our behalf. He died for us while we were sinners
so the worth of anyone is not something that should hold us back.
Kelly
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayand how exactly do you 'reach out to all' ?
I agree with you that the love of God and God's love for all of us should be
our motivation. Without that we could than deem some as unworthy of our
help or care, we could hold ourselves back from doing anything for anyone
because we deem them unworthy of our care; however, because Jesus
died for all of us, we should reach out to all so that Jesus recei ...[text shortened]... while we were sinners
so the worth of anyone is not something that should hold us back.
Kelly
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayThe problem that occurs is ussage of the words. Faith brings us to salvation in Jesus Christ, true enough. Then in recieving salvation, we recieve Christ, Jesus, God, and in recieving God we recieve love. As Paul states (sorry if this sounds repetitive) faith wihout love is nothing. Like a gong clanging in the wind.
I do not believe anyone has said we will not be doing good works, only that
our faith saves us through Jesus Christ, the works will come as a direct
result. We are not saved by the works we do, if you wish to stand before
God relying on your works, I don't think there are enough good works to
do that will clean you from your sin. The great thing about J ...[text shortened]... rit you'll not be doing God's work, but yours which
will puff you up before God and man.
Kelly
So to recieve Jesus we need faith, which is our salvation. But to be with the Father we need faith and Jesus (love). "No one can go to the Father but through me".
The only mistake that is almost always made, the term "WORKS". It is not what we do alone, it is Christ working though us. If you have faith, and recieve Jesus in your heart, it will be impossible for you Not to love. Love is a flame, that can not be hidden under a basket. Love is an action that is never quenched.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayMore straw, no one is claiming that works are anything other than an indication of a faith that is alive and well, they are certainly not being used as a justification for anything. The point that Rajk made was valid, simply acknowledging or believing in Christ is nothing, its meaningless, even daemons believe James tells us. Not only that the idea itself of once saved always saved breeds licentiousness and inactive passive Christians and makes a mockery of Christs words that endurance is what will help a person see salvation. They have no need of endurance or anything, they are already saved! NOT!
What is clear about those people who list their good works as the REASON
they should be accepted by Christ find that their works were NOT enough.
In order to do the will of God you better have the Spirit of God, without
God's Spirit you do not belong to Him. So doing everything you can do
including all the good works you can think of will be meaningle ...[text shortened]... od lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by PudgenikThese modern Christian churches try to separate faith and love and make the point that you are saved by faith and not by works. In doing that they automatically discourage their followers from doing good works with the idea that good works is an insult to Christ 'finished' work on the cross. So many people feel that if you do good works you are actually doing something wrong.
The problem that occurs is ussage of the words. Faith brings us to salvation in Jesus Christ, true enough. Then in recieving salvation, we recieve Christ, Jesus, God, and in recieving God we recieve love. As Paul states (sorry if this sounds repetitive) faith wihout love is nothing. Like a gong clanging in the wind.
So to recieve Jesus we need faith, wh ...[text shortened]... ove is a flame, that can not be hidden under a basket. Love is an action that is never quenched.
There is no separation [as you rightly say] between faith and works. If faith is present then love and good works will follow. If love and good works does not follow then you have no faith. Some people openly say that they do no good works neither pursue a lifestlye of love and charity. The claim is that they live by faith and the justification is by faith not works.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by KellyJayyes but how do you do it, practically? I know how i do it, by going from house to house with my Bible in hand.
You live a life of love for God and your fellowman, you are not going to
touch every person on the planet, but those you do, do it right!
Kelly
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs it possible for someone to go house to house with Bible in hand preached their doctrine and still not have love for their fellowman? Or are you saying that house to house going = love.
yes but how do you do it, practically? I know how i do it, by going from house to house with my Bible in hand.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou have a point, something I said you disagree with?
More straw, no one is claiming that works are anything other than an indication of a faith that is alive and well, they are certainly not being used as a justification for anything. The point that Rajk made was valid, simply acknowledging or believing in Christ is nothing, its meaningless, even daemons believe James tells us. Not only that the idea ...[text shortened]... person see salvation. They have no need of endurance or anything, they are already saved! NOT!
My point is that we will be doing the works God has for us, and we will do
them out of the love for God and our fellowman, yet I do not count God
as HAVING to save me because of my efforts. I rely only on the grace of
God not my works.
You believe that God must save you due to your efforts? I'm not denying
we should be working and doing it out of love! My point was that my efforts
are not what save me but Jesus Christ, my life belongs to Him and I need
to obey Him in all I do or say, but my salvation was won by Him not me,
that work has been finished.
For those that live lives of licentiousness and ignore God in their own lives,
do you count them as brothers and sisters in Christ?
Kelly
09 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999its an act of love but yes, someone could be doing it simply out a sense of duty, but then again, is it possible to display love simply by sitting in ones chair? I doubt it.
Is it possible for someone to go house to house with Bible in hand preached their doctrine and still not have love for their fellowman? Or are you saying that house to house going = love.