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COINHERANCE is another non-biblical yet useful word like "Trinity". It means lives within. One lives in the other. Each lives in the other.
Ie. "Philip, don't you remember Isaiah's prophecy. The child born to us is the Mighty God. Philip don't you recall Isaiah saying that the Son given unto us is called the Eternal Father? You have walked with Jesus now for these many years. How can you say 'Show us the Father?"
You may blame the invention of the word "Trinity" on some old Christian thinkers. But the FACT you have to blame on the Holy Bible.
And that the Father and the Son coinhere is the Bible's revelation:
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?".
I don't know HOW God is able to do this. I know that God does it. And the Father now lives in me too and in many of my Christian brothers.
Let the JWs show from their "original language" bragging where Michael the angel is said to live in them.
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Originally posted by RJHinds
This is from your post:
"A son honors [his] father, and a servant his lord. Therefore if I am a Father, where is My honor ? And if I am the Lord, where is My fear? says Jehovah of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name.
But you say, How have we despised Your name?" (Malachi 1:7)
Perhaps this is the real reason the Jewish priests would not pro " and by the real name
of His Son, "YAH shua" for He said He came in His Father's name.
COINHERANCE is another non-biblical yet useful word like "Trinity". It means lives within. One lives in the other. Each lives in the other.
Ie. "Philip, don't you remember Isaiah's prophecy. The child born to us is the Mighty God. Philip don't you recall Isaiah saying that the Son given unto us is called the Eternal Father? You have walked with Jesus now for these many years. How can you say 'Show us the Father?"
You may blame the invention of the word "Trinity" on some old Christian thinkers. But the FACT you have to blame on the Holy Bible.
And that the Father and the Son coinhere is the Bible's revelation:
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me?".
I don't know HOW God is able to do this. I know that God does it. And the Father now lives in me too and in many of my Christian brothers.
Let the JWs show from their "original language" bragging where Michael the angel is said to live in them.
RJHinds, as you know the are many names for God in the Bible. He is very rich and very all-inclusive. And many names are ascribed to Him in the Bible.
There are two extremes to be avoided, I think. On one hand we don't want to fall into the error of calling God anything because He has many names. We do not want to say "Well, God is also Krishna or Satan because He was called a number of names in Scripture."
And on the other hand we should not want to fall into a legalism "Well, we must ONLY call God THIS and nothing else. And it has to be exactly pronounced in thus and such a manner."
I don't think we should be TOO loose on one side or TOO legal on the other side.
Hallelujah is an excellent and universe praise of God. I agree. From that I derive no legality that one should not refer to God as Jehovah.
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Originally posted by jaywillWe dont actually profess that Jesus lives within us, that's the kind of mumbo jumbo
COINHERANCE is another non-biblical yet useful word like "Trinity". It means lives within. One lives in the other. Each lives in the other.
Ie. "Philip, don't you remember Isaiah's prophecy. The child born to us is the Mighty God. Philip don't you recall Isaiah saying that the Son given unto us is called the Eternal Father? You have walked with Jesus no ir "original language" bragging where Michael the angel is said to live in them.
that we expect from born again Christians who are self obsessed with their own
salvation and rather than study the Bible are concerned with an emotionalism. we
are a little more logical and rational than that.
(John 14:10) . . .Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the
Father is in union with me? The things I say to you men I do not speak of my own
originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.
where does it state that being in union with Christ is an indwelling, that is correct, it
doesn't, once again you are trying to impose your dogma onto scripture where none
exists. If you are in union with the Christ as you state, and in union with the Holy
spirit as you state, are you also part of the trinity? You , RJH and Manny, the new
trinity?
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Originally posted by menace71Ok, break down word by word what these discriptions mean and if that could apply to the Almighty God...
Also why and how can the son be called Eternal father ? Answer that G-75 and RC if you can. The Child the Son will be called.........these names
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Manny
Could a spiritual being in the way we concieve God as being from eternity to eternity be called a SON or CHILD? Isn't a son or child an offspring of another being?
"His name will be called"????? If Jesus were truly God all along from eternity past like the trinity teaches, wouldn't he already be these things? If he were truly God himself all things qualities would all ready be in him and not given to him later.
If he didn't have these qualities then he or God would have been lacking in these things and not truly an Almighty God. Right? He wouldn't be complete.
If God were truly this 3 in one God then all parts or beings as the trinity teaches would all be knowing, all powerful , etc, as I'm told. Am I wrong? So if they are all equal in all things, how can one be given something that it did not have? How can one of the other parts be stronger to give these things to the other if they are supposedly equal?
And why can't Jesus be called these things? Isn't he Wonderful? Isn't he our counselor as he now has the position as our King? And again compared to us humans and for what he has done and the power that he now has been given by his Father, is he not a God to us?
Again satan is called a God in the Bible and some actually worship him. So he s a God to them too. But he is by no means a God to us.
And why can't he be called a Father to us? Isn't he NOW in charge of our well being and our future? Is not a father here on earth in a same position as this for his children?
But get the point here. He has not always been in those positions. He was only given those by his Father because of his faithfullness to his Father Jehovah. This new responcebility was earned and has not always been there. Correct?
And is a Prince the same as his King who rules over him?
You have to view this as simply as it truly is.
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Originally posted by jaywillLook at Exodus 3:14 again. In response to the question from Moses about
[quote] COINHERANCE is another non-biblical yet useful word like "Trinity". It means lives within. One lives in the other. Each lives in the other.
Ie. "Philip, don't you remember Isaiah's prophecy. The child born to us is the Mighty God. Philip don't you recall Isaiah saying that the Son given unto us is called the Eternal Father? You have walked with rom that I derive no legality that one should not refer to God as Jehovah.
what name shall I give the sons of Israel as to the name of the God that
sent me to them, God said, (English Translation) "I AM WHO I AM" then God
goes on to say, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me
to you." Then in verse 15 God says, "This is My name forever, and this is
My memorial name to all generations."
Notice God shortens the original name to just "I AM" which is to be His
name forever. I say this shortened name is pronounced "YAH" as in the
praise "Hallelu YAH". It is not pronounced "Jehovah". You can despise His
name if you wish and call Him any other name since you do not want to
be legalistic about it. You can also despise my name and call me Buddy,
numbskull, Dunderhead, or what ever you feel is less legalistic. God's
name is what He says it is in my opinion, not what we feel more at ease
in calling Him. Yahshua called God, My Father and our Father but He
did not say that was His name. But Yahshua did say He came in His
Father's name. "Yahshua, by the way, means "YAH saves" for it is He
who will save His people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21 NASB)
Originally posted by RJHindsSo your refusing to use Jesus's name now? All translations use it in this scripture.
Look at Exodus 3:14 again. In response to the question from Moses about
what name shall I give the sons of Israel as to the name of the God that
sent me to them, God said, (English Translation) "I AM WHO I AM" then God
goes on to say, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me
to you." Then in verse 15 God says, "This is My name foreve ...[text shortened]... for it is He
who will save His people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21 NASB)
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
We dont actually profess that Jesus lives within us, that's the kind of mumbo jumbo
that we expect from born again Christians who are self obsessed with their own
salvation and rather than study the Bible are concerned with an emotionalism. we
are a little more logical and rational than that.
(John 14:10) . . .Do you not believe that I am i pirit as you state, are you also part of the trinity? You , RJH and Manny, the new
trinity?
We dont actually profess that Jesus lives within us, that's the kind of mumbo jumbo
that we expect from born again Christians who are self obsessed with their own
salvation and rather than study the Bible are concerned with an emotionalism. we
are a little more logical and rational than that.
What do you think of that Christian brothers ? Christ living in His lovers is "mumbo jumbo".
First Jesus Christ Himself taught of His indwelling:
"Judas, not Isacariot, said to Him, Lord, and what has happened that You are about to manifest Yourself to us and not to the world?
Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
"Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans, I am coming to you." (John 14:17,18)
Paul asked to Corinthian Christians to check their personal experience of Christ living in them:
"Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove youselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus christ is in you, unless you are disapproved ?" (1 Cor. 13:5)
This Jehovah's Witness is exposed as disapproved at his calling the indwelling of Christ "mumbo jumbo" talk.
Christ in the Christians is the hope of glory, as He spreads His nature into our personality. He eventually will burst forth in our bodies:
" ... God willed to make known what are the riches of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory." (Col 1:27)
"Mumbo jumbo" talk, says the Jehovah's Witness.
Paul speaks that God living in the believers to build them up into a habitation or "dwelling place" of God in spirit, is His central purpose:
"In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; In whom [the Lord] you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:21,22)
But how can the church be a dwelling place of God unless God is dwelling within the members of the church ?
The Apostle travails in his labors that Jesus Christ would not only indwell the believers but be formed in them - taking shape, becoming more pronounced in their practical living:
"My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you ..." (Gal. 4:19)
And no wonder. Christ in them is the divine treasure of life in their earthen vessels:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not our of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)
Christ within, empowers them. The Christian is the earthen vessel in his humanity. Jesus Christ is the excellent One empowering them from within.
But this is "mumbo jumbo" talk to the alledged "Jehovah's Witness". Don't listen to him.
Then the Apostle John speaks of God and Christ indwelling the believers.
"No one has beheld God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. In this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, that He has given to us of His Spirit." (1 John 4:12,13)
Christ and His Father, as the Divine "WE" (John 14:23) are able to indwell the believers because Jesus Christ, in resurrection, also transfigured Himself into the life giving Holy Spirit. He made Himself into a form in which He can enter into man:
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)[/b]
Since Christ as the life giving Spirit came into the believers, the angel instructted them to go into the temple to proclaim all the words of this Divine indwelling life:
"But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the prison, and leading them out, said,
Go and stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life." (Acts 5:19,20)
But to this "Jehovah's Witness" these are all "mumbo jumbo" words.
But Jesus speaks of the day of His resurrection. The disciples, the true disciples (not the antichrist false teachers) will know that we are in Him as a living sphere and realm and He dwells in us:
"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20)
He is in the believers. So He is with them until the consummation of the age:
" ... behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:20b)
And the Apostle Paul's LAST written words to the young apostle Timothy was to remember that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself was with his regenerated human spirit:
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:22)
I am not going to wait to see what antichrist dance the "Jehovah's Witness" will do for each one of these precious verses. The word of God is to him "mumbo jumbo" talk.
The last Adam, Jesus Christ, made Himself in a form in which He Himself may come into the innermost kernel of our being and live in oneness with us in a mingled and blended way.
The Jehovah's Witness are teaching "another Jesus" who is Michael the angel in their false teaching.
Now the heretic boasts of his original language writing skills. Yet his translation reflects not the original Greek words but his theological interpretations -
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(John 14:10) . . .Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father
Which Greek word translates to "union" in that passage of (John 14:10) ?
Robbie is a hypocrit here. He is paraphrasing where he boasted that he only cares for the original language.
There are probably thousands of places where the New World translation has paraphrased according to what THEY want to teach - Arianism, Russellite Christology.
and the
Father is in union with me? The things I say to you men I do not speak of my own
originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.
where does it state that being in union with Christ is an indwelling,
The indwelling of Jesus Christ is taught by Jesus Christ in the passage equating Himself with the Spirit of Reality, the Another Comforter:
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, [Even] the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know [Him]; but you know Him, because He abides with you and SHALL BE IN YOU.
I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS; I AM COMING TO YOU." (John 14:16-18 my emphasis)
The Another Comforter is Jesus Christ in a form in which He can not only be WITH the disciples but can be IN the disciples.
He abides with them and SHALL be IN them. The Jehovah's Witnesses as unbelievers are part of the WORLD which cannot receive Him and cannot behold Him. Unless they repent to believe into Christ from their attempting to regard Him as an angel, they are of the world. They are not of the Christian brotherhood at all.
No wonder they mock the matter of the Body of Christ.
And if John 14:16-18 is too indirect (which is should not be) Jesus plainly says that He and His Father will come as the "WE" and make an ABODE in His lovers (JOHN 14:23)
Paul confirms - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Paul confirms - "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
The heretic Russellite has no case whatsoever to speak of Christ living in the Christians as "mumbo jumbo" talk. Don't listen to him.
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Originally posted by jaywillLol, Jay, your foaming at the mouth, perhaps you have a daemon? Quick, where is
(John 14:10) . . .Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father
Which Greek word translates to "union" in that passage of [b](John 14:10) ?
Robbie is a hypocrit here. He is paraphrasing where he boasted that he only cares for the original language.
There are probably thousands of places where the New World translat ak of Christ living in the Christians as "mumbo jumbo" talk. Don't listen to him.[/b]
RJH, perhaps he will exorcise it for you!
As for the verse itself, if you can wipe the foam from your lips, its clear that the
term is used elsewhere and has different implications, for example, a number of
times this relationship is described as being “in union with Christ” or “in Christ,” and
we also observe the reverse expression “Christ in union with you,”
(Romans 16:10) . . .Greet Apelles, the approved one in Christ. Greet those from the
household of Aristobulus. . .
does this mean that Christ literally dwelt within Apelles, hardly! it speaks of a relationship.
(1 Corinthians 15:18) . . .In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with
Christ perished. . .
a relationship
(1 Corinthians 3:1) . . .And so, brothers, I was not able to speak to you as to
spiritual men, but as to fleshly men, as to babes in Christ. . .
a relationship
(1 Thessalonians 4:16) . . .because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a
commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who
are dead in union with Christ will rise first.
a relationship
clearly, we can discern that not one of these verses speaks of Christ literally in
anyone, but the description is of a relationship, we have therefore every valid
reason and basis for translating the text as we do, from a theological standpoint
and a linguistic one, whether you like it or not. So suck it up Jaywill , we are
awesome!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI told others not to listen to you. Therefore I should take my own advice.
Lol, Jay, your foaming at the mouth, perhaps you have a daemon? Quick, where is
RJH, perhaps he will exorcise it for you!
As for the verse itself, if you can wipe the foam from your lips, its clear that the
term is used elsewhere and has different implications, for example, a number of
times this relationship is described as being “in union ...[text shortened]...
and a linguistic one, whether you like it or not. So suck it up Jaywill , we are
awesome!
I will not be reading any of your posts anymore. I told others not to listen to you. I think I should take the lead then, not to.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAre you ignoring my question? I think I have given you plenty of
We dont actually profess that Jesus lives within us, that's the kind of mumbo jumbo
that we expect from born again Christians who are self obsessed with their own
salvation and rather than study the Bible are concerned with an emotionalism. we
are a little more logical and rational than that.
(John 14:10) . . .Do you not believe that I am i ...[text shortened]... pirit as you state, are you also part of the trinity? You , RJH and Manny, the new
trinity?
time to reply. I know you will refuse to go back and find my post
so I will repeat the question.
Well, is the child to be born to be called the Mighty God or not; and, if not,
what is your proof?
Originally posted by galveston75No, I am not legalistic either, I can still use Jesus to those that have
So your refusing to use Jesus's name now? All translations use it in this scripture.
a lack of knowledge of the true name. But those on this forum should
know the true name of God now, because I have explained it.
Originally posted by RJHindsThe Word’s preeminent position among God’s creatures as the Firstborn, the one through whom God created all things, and as God’s Spokesman, gives real basis for his being called “a god” or mighty one. The Messianic prophecy at Isaiah 9:6 foretold that he would be called “Mighty God,” though not the Almighty God, and that he would be the “Eternal Father” of all those privileged to live as his subjects. The zeal of his own Father, “Jehovah of armies,” would accomplish this. (Isa 9:7) Certainly if God’s Adversary, Satan the Devil, is called a “god” (2Co 4:4) because of his dominance over men and demons (1Jo 5:19; Lu 11:14-18), then with far greater reason and propriety is God’s firstborn Son called “a god,” “the only-begotten god” as the most reliable manuscripts of John 1:18 call him.
Are you ignoring my question? I think I have given you plenty of
time to reply. I know you will refuse to go back and find my post
so I will repeat the question.
Well, is the child to be born to be called the Mighty God or not; and, if not,
what is your proof?