@fmf saidBecause I have never read where any Christian in this forum ever said "that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity".
Why have you never confronted those Christians here who insist that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity?
For the record though, if there are any Christians posting in this forum that believe the Bible teaches "that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity", you are mistaken.
Happy now FMF?
@secondson saidThis theology/ideology has been explicitly articulated, mentioned, alluded to, defended, argued, justified and described literally hundreds of times since you started posting.
Because I have never read where any Christian in this forum ever said "that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity".
@secondson saidWhy not confront KellyJay or sonship then? Why are you using me as a proxy?
For the record though, if there are any Christians posting in this forum that believe the Bible teaches "that those not "saved" will be tormented in burning flames for eternity", you are mistaken.
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@secondson saidAfter all that lecture on phrasing comments exactly as the bible states it, you then talk about separation from God. There is NO SUCH THING IN THE BIBLE. That is what hypocrisy i s . .. doing exactly what you tell people not to do.
Your opening gambit.
[b]"I contest that the doctrine of death, the doctrine of eternal suffering as laid out by those who believe in it and as it has been discussed in dozens of threads over years in this forum, fundamentally describes a version of the Christian God, including the “Lamb” (Jesus) overseeing the deliberate, purposeful burning alive of what will effectively ...[text shortened]... That's what I believe, and I don't want anyone to go there. No effing way.
And neither does God.
How about an honest reply about what you believe instead of beating around the bush. You focus on the wording of Dive's post rather than on the gist and the intent of what [you very well know] he is trying to say.
The question is - what happens to those who are not in the Kingdom of God?
SO far you say they are not tormented for eternity. Can you state what happens. My interpretation is that they are annihilated. What is yours.
@rajk999 said"annihilated" That word is in the Bible, it is only talking about a natural death nothing more.
After all that lecture on phrasing comments exactly as the bible states it, you then talk about separation from God. There is NO SUCH THING IN THE BIBLE. That is what hypocrisy i s . .. doing exactly what you tell people not to do.
How about an honest reply about what you believe instead of beating around the bush. You focus on the wording of Dive's post rather than on t ...[text shortened]... ernity. Can you state what happens. My interpretation is that they are annihilated. What is yours.
Esther 7:4
For we have been sold, I and my people, to be destroyed, to be killed, and to be annihilated. If we had been sold merely as slaves, men and women, I would have been silent, for our affliction is not to be compared with the loss to the king.”
The words I see relating to how long someone will suffer torment is longer:
Revelation 14:
"...their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night,..."
Revelation 20:
"...and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Also the word torment is used to illustrate other things as well, though none good, it could go from regret to harm.
1 Samuel 16:14
Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the Lord tormented him.
2 Samuel 13:2
And Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister Tamar, for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do anything to her.
Psalm 137:3
For there our captors required of us songs, and our tormentors, mirth, saying, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
Luke 16:27-29 English Standard Version (ESV)
And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
Righteousness, judgment, holiness demands an answer for sins, it will be rendered either by our savior taking it upon Himself, or by ourselves standing before God in our sins.
@kellyjay saidWhat would be the moral purpose of the 3 millionth year of tormenting ~ in burning flames ~ in secret ~ of someone for not believing in Jesus?
"annihilated" That word is in the Bible, it is only talking about a natural death nothing more.
Esther 7:4
For we have been sold, I and my people, to be destroyed, to be killed, and to be annihilated. If we had been sold merely as slaves, men and women, I would have been silent, for our affliction is not to be compared with the loss to the king.”
The words I see relat ...[text shortened]... ndered either by our savior taking it upon Himself, or by ourselves standing before God in our sins.
@rajk999 saidIsaiah 59:2
After all that lecture on phrasing comments exactly as the bible states it, you then talk about separation from God. There is NO SUCH THING IN THE BIBLE.
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Matthew 25:32&46
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
You're right Rajk. There's no such thing in the Bible.
And I was wrong about you. You're not a reprobate and a heretic. You're just plain ignorant.
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@secondson saidThank you for that.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Matthew 25:32&46
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into ...[text shortened]... ble.
And I was wrong about you. You're not a reprobate and a heretic. You're just plain ignorant.
In Matt 25, Jesus separates the good from the evil. The good enters the Kingdom of God and the evil is cast out.
In Isaiah, sin is what separates man from God.
Your church doctrine states that a man can profess faith, continue on with sin and still be with God ie he is not separated from God.
Your name calling went over my head.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI think you can not defend that!
If a loving God truly exists my friend, nobody is in danger of eternal torment.
Nobody.