@kellyjay saidWhat is an abomination is all that bull you just wrote
I hear a lot of people talking about Jesus being the Son of God while denying His deity. If He isn't God, who and what is He? Will God create someone else to kill to justify another? A created being just to be slattered so other created beings could be justified, and that is somehow okay, no sweat off God's nose?
The whole point of Jesus laying down His life for us was th ...[text shortened]... upon Himself our sins, took part in our humanity to justify us. Anyone less would be an abomination.
@kellyjay saidSo what you're saying is that if someone had to be crucified, it could only be God Himself. And since Jesus was crucified.....then Jesus had to be God.
I hear a lot of people talking about Jesus being the Son of God while denying His deity. If He isn't God, who and what is He? Will God create someone else to kill to justify another? A created being just to be slattered so other created beings could be justified, and that is somehow okay, no sweat off God's nose?
The whole point of Jesus laying down His life for us was th ...[text shortened]... upon Himself our sins, took part in our humanity to justify us. Anyone less would be an abomination.
I like that concept......but honestly, the Bible doesn't clearly specify this scenario.
@chaney3 saidIf God didn't lay down His own life for us, He made someone just for that purpose, as He makes everything else. What we see in scripture is our sinless Savior, the Word of God made flesh, the Logos, I am, Lord of the Sabbath, God with us, it was Jesus who laid down His life for us, at a cost to God Himself. Otherwise, you have God making someone to kill, so we humans can be clean, that would be horrific on its face not holy, just, righteous.
So what you're saying is that if someone had to be crucified, it could only be God Himself. And since Jesus was crucified.....then Jesus had to be God.
I like that concept......but honestly, the Bible doesn't clearly specify this scenario.
If Jesus was just a man, how much worth could even a sinless man have next to the entire weight of all of mankind's sins? The punishment thrown at Jesus for our forgiveness crushed Him, for every lie, rape, murder, child abuse, and the list goes on and on for all of man's time on the planet, and all of the future of man's time on the planet till God calls it to an end. Only someone of infinite nature could endure such a beating when a just recompense for a sinner who dies in their sin is an eternity in Hell, the justification for all of was won by Jesus Christ, He suffered the full weight of God's wrath for us, this is our great salvation and something those that miss it will do so to their eternal harm.
@chaney3 saidIt is evident, but people want many different Jesus' ones they can mold into whatever they want as they do God and gods.
So what you're saying is that if someone had to be crucified, it could only be God Himself. And since Jesus was crucified.....then Jesus had to be God.
I like that concept......but honestly, the Bible doesn't clearly specify this scenario.
@kellyjay said"He suffered the full weight of God's wrath for us"
If God didn't lay down His own life for us, He made someone just for that purpose, as He makes everything else. What we see in scripture is our sinless Savior, the Word of God made flesh, the Logos, I am, Lord of the Sabbath, God with us, it was Jesus who laid down His life for us, at a cost to God Himself. Otherwise, you have God making someone to kill, so we humans can be ...[text shortened]... r us, this is our great salvation and something those that miss it will do so to their eternal harm.
This is a sentence from your post. In this sentence Jesus is not God.
People do this ALL the time!! They say God and Jesus are the same, then in the next breath they casually contradict themselves.
If Jesus is God, then there should only be ONE name. It shouldn't be this confusing.
@chaney3 saidYou under the notion there is only one God who has three personalities?
"He suffered the full weight of God's wrath for us"
This is a sentence from your post. In this sentence Jesus is not God.
People do this ALL the time!! They say God and Jesus are the same, then in the next breath they casually contradict themselves.
If Jesus is God, then there should only be ONE name. It shouldn't be this confusing.
No, three persons, one Being, so the Son of God, is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, but all three are God as one.
@chaney3 said<<Yes.....but we are 3 separate people.
Yes.....but we are 3 separate people.
Completely separate.
Even if I say we are "one".....it's in spirit, but still separate.
Completely separate.>>
Right. And God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit are separate as well.
These are imperfect analogies, but think of an egg - one egg but three separate parts: The shell, the yolk and the white stuff.
Or think of H2O - it exists as water, ice and vapor.
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-Removed-Adam was created in the image of God as well, so that point means nothing
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.(Genesis 1:27 KJV)
An image is an outward representation, or impression of the original. Jesus stated clearly that God was greater. Jesus had a beginning because he was a created being. Your passage says he was the firstborn of all creation. Therefore there was a time when Jesus the Son, did not exist and not with the Father. The Father created the Son and this simple fact destroys the entire nonsense called the Trinity.
@pb1022 saidThere was a time when part of that egg was not there.
<<Yes.....but we are 3 separate people.
Completely separate.>>
Right. And God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit are separate as well.
These are imperfect analogies, but think of an egg - one egg but three separate parts: The shell, the yolk and the white stuff.
Or think of H2O - it exists as water, ice and vapor.
God the Father created Jesus the Son.
Jesus was the firstborn of all creation
There was a day when Jesus was begotten
This was long before the creation of man
These analogies make no sense
@kellyjay saidWhat evidence you have that Jesus existed always with God?
You under the notion there is only one God who has three personalities?
No, three persons, one Being, so the Son of God, is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, but all three are God as one.
Remember that the bible says that Jesus was the first born of all creation.
Meaning that there was a time when he did not exist.