-Removed-No, it means you are mistaken about what that passage means. They are one everything about the Holy Spirit reflects totally and completely the Son and the Father, and the same goes for Jesus to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Throughout the whole Bible, the Old and New Testaments, we see this, when God made man, what was it that God said?
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
We see numerous times where all three are acting, doing different things simultaneously; they refer to each other as someone different.
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-Removed-Here it is
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:9-10 KJV)
Remember the bible says that no man can see God and live. Here Jesus being an image of God is what people can see and live. So they are not one and the same being or entity.
Jesus used that same expression to say that He was in the disciples and the disciples were in him. Jesus was one with the disciples as well. All these expressions mean is that they think alike, or act akile or have the same mindset and this comes when people have the Holy Spirit and are all in accordance with God the Father and controller of all things. In the case of God and Jesus, God acts and carries out things through Christ, Christ is the Word of God eg Christ carrout the creation by instructions from God
This is a bad analogy but it is like a remote controlled robot, which looks like the creator, and acts in accordance with the instructions from the creator which is God, the Father of all things. They are one in that sense, Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus, but still they are two separate and distinct entities, because both can act independently of each other.
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@chaney3
You should not be confused especially about being saved. The apostolic message is clear.
"But what does it say? " The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith which we proclaim, That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation." (Rom. 10:8-10)
No, you do not have to run off and ask permission of Rajk999,(who I have never seen confess Jesus is Lord or clearly state His bodily resurrection), and who most likely will immediately follow this post to speak of how not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of the heavens (from Matt. 7:21)
Do you see in Romans 10 the direct simplicity of believing Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead as a criteria of being saved? This simplicity meets OUR need. But what about the need of God to perfect us into His purpose after we are graciously saved by calling on the Lord Jesus.
God not JUST desires "all men to be saved" but in addition He desires that all men "come to the full knowledge of the truth." This requires time, growth, and deepening of understanding, don't you think?
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of our Savior God, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)
A deeper understanding of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit I think is in the realm of "and to come to the full knowledge of the truth."
There is "What is MY need? What meets MY problem of being saved by God?"
Believe in your heart that God raised the Lord Jesus - YOUR Lord Jesus from the dead. And confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth believing in your heart.
Finer points concerning the Triune God will come as God goes on that you see His eternal purpose - "the full knowledge of the truth". Shouldn't we seek both eventuatally?
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@sonship saidYou have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME. Paul said clearly what it is the full knowledge of the truth. Why did you leave that out and insert your own opinion. Here it is :
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of our Savior God, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)
A deeper understanding of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit I think is in the realm of "and to come to the full knowledge of the truth."
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV)
The truth is:
ONE GOD AND
ONE MEDIATOR Jesus Christ.
Many many times Paul said the very same thing
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)
Nobody in the bible, Not Christ, Not Paul, Not any of the Apostles supports your Trinity or Triune doctrine which you cannot explain properly because it is FABRICATED NONSENSE.
More full knowledge and truth
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.(John 17:3 KJV)
God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself
@rajk999 said<<You have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered >>
You have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME. Paul said clearly what it is the full knowledge of the truth. Why did you leave that out and insert your own opinion. Here it is :
Who will have all men to be saved, and ...[text shortened]... nt.(John 17:3 KJV)
God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself
And you have to be the most hateful person purporting to be a Christian that I’ve encountered.
You have no love in you - no love for God and no love for your neighbor. If you did, you wouldn’t be able to write something like that.
@rajk999 said<>God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself>>
You have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME. Paul said clearly what it is the full knowledge of the truth. Why did you leave that out and insert your own opinion. Here it is :
Who will have all men to be saved, and ...[text shortened]... nt.(John 17:3 KJV)
God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself
You don’t understand the Trinity. You’re like the atheist who thinks Jesus Christ prayed to Himself.
You might ask yourself why your understanding of the Trinity is at the same level of an atheist.
@rajk999 said<<You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME.>>
You have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME. Paul said clearly what it is the full knowledge of the truth. Why did you leave that out and insert your own opinion. Here it is :
Who will have all men to be saved, and ...[text shortened]... nt.(John 17:3 KJV)
God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself
That’s psychological projection.
You ignore this very clear passage written by Paul in Ephesians:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
You ignore virtually everything Paul wrote in Galatians and in Romans 7 and 8 and in the opening chapters of Hebrews.
And I could identify a lot more if I wanted to spend the time.
@pb1022 saidThe Trinity cannot be understood.
<>God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself>>
You don’t understand the Trinity. You’re like the atheist who thinks Jesus Christ prayed to Himself.
You might ask yourself why your understanding of the Trinity is at the same level of an atheist.
One may claim that they understand it, but would be deceiving themselves.
Trying to explain it with HUMAN analogies such as water, steam, ice.....or brother, uncle, father......doesn't cut it. That may attempt to satisfy someone's faith, but is far from a reasonable explanation.
Does it all even matter?
Can one go to heaven by simply believing in God, and that God sent Jesus? Why the need to make them the same?
@rajk999 said<<Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV)
You have to be the most crooked and deceitful piece of Christian garbage I have ever encountered You willfully omit the passages from Paul which contradict your doctrine, and you do it ALL THE TIME. Paul said clearly what it is the full knowledge of the truth. Why did you leave that out and insert your own opinion. Here it is :
Who will have all men to be saved, and ...[text shortened]... nt.(John 17:3 KJV)
God send Christ. The Father sent the Son. He did not send himself
The truth is:
ONE GOD AND
ONE MEDIATOR Jesus Christ.>>
You still don’t get that Jesus Christ’s stature before His birth to the Virgin Mary was different from His stature during His earthly ministry.
Hebrews clearly says Jesus was “made a little lower than the angels” to “taste death for every man.” Was He always “a little lower than the angels?” No. He was “*made* a little lower than the angels” so He could suffer and die in our place.
@chaney3 said“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
The Trinity cannot be understood.
One may claim that they understand it, but would be deceiving themselves.
Trying to explain it with HUMAN analogies such as water, steam, ice.....or brother, uncle, father......doesn't cut it. That may attempt to satisfy someone's faith, but is far from a reasonable explanation.
Does it all even matter?
Can one go to heaven by simply believing in God, and that God sent Jesus? Why the need to make them the same?
(John 8:24)
This is an interesting commentary on the above verse. Apparently “he” is not in the original Greek. So Jesus is really saying,
“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.”
I can certainly see a major difference in that verse if the “he” is not there.
https://www.bibleandtheology.net/i-am-and-the-divinity-of-jesus-in-john-824-28-58/
@chaney3 saidThese people preach death and damnation and you would do well to ignore them. Jesus Christ and all the Apostles condemned them and their false doctrines in the strongest possible language. Jesus called them hypocrites, fools and blind guides.
The Trinity cannot be understood.
One may claim that they understand it, but would be deceiving themselves.
Trying to explain it with HUMAN analogies such as water, steam, ice.....or brother, uncle, father......doesn't cut it. That may attempt to satisfy someone's faith, but is far from a reasonable explanation.
Does it all even matter?
Can one go to heaven by simply believing in God, and that God sent Jesus? Why the need to make them the same?
Notice how they ignore good works and righteousness which Jesus and all the Apostles said you MUST do otherwise there is no eternal life in the Kingdom of God, and instead tell people they are saved and nothing else is required. Utter fools.
@rajk999 said<<These people preach death and damnation and you would do well to ignore them. Jesus Christ and all the Apostles condemned them and their false doctrines in the strongest possible language. Jesus called them hypocrites, fools and blind guides.>>
These people preach death and damnation and you would do well to ignore them. Jesus Christ and all the Apostles condemned them and their false doctrines in the strongest possible language. Jesus called them hypocrites, fools and blind guides.
Notice how they ignore good works and righteousness which Jesus and all the Apostles said you MUST do otherwise there is no eternal ...[text shortened]... e Kingdom of God, and instead tell people they are saved and nothing else is required. Utter fools.
Actually, Jesus Christ said that of the Pharisees, who were obsessed with Law keeping and condemning others and who had no love or compassion in them. Sound like someone you know?
@rajk999 said<<Notice how they ignore good works and righteousness which Jesus and all the Apostles said you MUST do otherwise there is no eternal life in the Kingdom of God, and instead tell people they are saved and nothing else is required. Utter fools.>>
These people preach death and damnation and you would do well to ignore them. Jesus Christ and all the Apostles condemned them and their false doctrines in the strongest possible language. Jesus called them hypocrites, fools and blind guides.
Notice how they ignore good works and righteousness which Jesus and all the Apostles said you MUST do otherwise there is no eternal ...[text shortened]... e Kingdom of God, and instead tell people they are saved and nothing else is required. Utter fools.
Good works are a natural result of being saved and being righteous before God and possessing God’s indwelt Holy Spirit.
Nearly the entire New Testament has completely flown over your head. You seem to be stuck in the Old Testament and have no understanding or appreciation for what Jesus Christ did on the cross.
With you, it’s just me, me, me, my works, my commandment keeping. Get out of here, Jesus! Look at me! Me, me, me. Look at my good works! Look at my commandment keeping! Me, me, me.
@rajk999 saidThis sounds exactly like the Jehovah's Witness blasphemy.
What evidence you have that Jesus existed always with God?
Remember that the bible says that Jesus was the first born of all creation.
Meaning that there was a time when he did not exist.
They misinterpret Colossians 1:15 exactly as you do.
Is Jesus the Archangel Michael, too?
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The Trinity cannot be understood.
Probably, completely, God's three-oneness is just beyond the limitation of our finite minds.
However, the Triune God can be EXPERIENCED and the Trinity can be ENJOYED.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." (2 Cor. 13:14)
i agree with you on understanding. Now this verse and hundreds like it speak to believers being full of the enjoyment - subjectively - and both privately and corporately in the love - grace - and fellowship flowing forth within them from the Trinity.
Here again:
"And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:17)
After this Paul writes "For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, . . . " (4:5)
So Christ Jesus the Lord is also the Spirit - the Holy Spirit. And He is the Spirit not mainly so that men may have a mentally perplexing doctrine to debate about. He is the Spirit that believers may have freedom in Him. And that they may be transformed by "the Spirit of the Lord".
"But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting the glory of the LOrd, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." ( 2 Cor. 3:18)
Freedom, transformation, fellowship, love, grace - these are the issues of the mysterious Trinity from within us who have let Christ come into our hearts.