@medullah saidAgreed. The Trinity is an over intellectualized retrofit that has corrupted the original text.
If you picked the bible up a read it from cover to cover you might some up with the idea that the Father and Son are the same person if you weren't concentrating.
There is no way that you would assemble a trinity.
@pb1022 saidHmmmmm, sounds familiar... 😁
Read the next two verses:
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
(Colossians 1:16-17)
I agree with this commentary from bibleref ...[text shortened]... a created being; He is the Creator.>>
https://www.bibleref.com/Colossians/1/Colossians-1-15.html
@galveston75 saidCome on, seriously.
Proverbs 8:22
22 "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago."
This is speaking of Jesus. How do you negate the clear fact of his beginning which was by Jehovah creating him?
I mean this is so clear. But by a trinity believer not accepting this clear and simple statement would be like me saying I wasn't born th ...[text shortened]... ough Jesus says it here as well as other scriptures that he had a beginning by means of his Father..
Let's see the KJV of this.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt comes from just reading the text; what do you see what was corrupted in the original text that springs out of the doctrine of the Trinity?
Agreed. The Trinity is an over intellectualized retrofit that has corrupted the original text.
This opening verse from 2 Peter is pretty interesting:
“Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:”
(2 Peter 1:1 - NIV)
Almost all translations of this verse have the same (or very similar) wording.
But then look at the KJV:
“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:”
(2 Peter 1:1)
Notice the difference?
@suzianne saidYou know what’s interesting about Colossians 1:16?
Not looking for credit.
The credit goes to God.
Compare it to Genesis 1:1.
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
(Colossians 1:16)
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
(Genesis 1:1)
So if all things were created by Jesus Christ, as stated in Colossians 1:16, and God created the heaven and the earth, as stated in Genesis 1:1, it seems pretty clear that Jesus is God.
Have just started working my way through this article, from which my last two posts are based, but recommend it anyway as an interesting read.
Hopefully I’ll get through it in the next couple of days and will post other examples I think are interesting.
That comparison between 1 Colossians and Genesis 1:1 is hard to deny, but it looks like this article has more very interesting comparisons.
Anyway, here is a link to it:
https://www.risenchurch.org.au/risen-blog/did-jesus-claim-to-be-god-a-response-to-bart-ehrman
@pb1022 saidWhat is even more interesting is that Jesus is subject to God, before his ministry, during his ministry and after his ministry. throughout eternity, the Son is subject to the Father.
You know what’s interesting about Colossians 1:16?
Compare it to Genesis 1:1.
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
(Colossians 1:16)
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the eart ...[text shortened]... created the heaven and the earth, as stated in Genesis 1:1, it seems pretty clear that Jesus is God.
So in the creation the Father is the creator and He created the world through Jesus the Son. Again it shows subservience, and that the Son is subject to the Father. They are two separate and distinct individuals. the Father says what to do and the Son obeys. God said let there be light and the Son creates the light.
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV)
God the creator
The Son the follower of instructions
There is no such thing as co-equality.
The doctrine of the Trinity is foolishness.
@rajk999 saidSo Jesus Christ had no choice but to go to the cross?
What is even more interesting is that Jesus is subject to God, before his ministry, during his ministry and after his ministry. throughout eternity, the Son is subject to the Father.
So in the creation the Father is the creator and He created the world through Jesus the Son. Again it shows subservience, and that the Son is subject to the Father. They are two separate and ...[text shortened]... of instructions
There is no such thing as co-equality.
The doctrine of the Trinity is foolishness.
@rajk999 saidHow ‘bout this comparison between New Testament and Old Testament?
What is even more interesting is that Jesus is subject to God, before his ministry, during his ministry and after his ministry. throughout eternity, the Son is subject to the Father.
So in the creation the Father is the creator and He created the world through Jesus the Son. Again it shows subservience, and that the Son is subject to the Father. They are two separate and ...[text shortened]... of instructions
There is no such thing as co-equality.
The doctrine of the Trinity is foolishness.
“Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
(Philippians 2:9-11)
“Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
(Isaiah 45:22-23)