Originally posted by @rajk999 I get the impression he is interested in finding out what Jesus actually said about himself or the closest thing to that.
What John said, what Isaiah said, what the pastor said, etc etc is not the question
Jesus identified as God more than a few times. I created a thread with more than a dozen verses and passages showing exactly that and would have continued if atheist trolls hadn’t spammed the thread with nonsense.
Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’[a] 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see ...[text shortened]... seen Abraham?”[b] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.
That does not cut it.
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01 Jun '18 01:22
Originally posted by @chaney3 Can you cite one Old Testament prophecy that speaks of God coming to earth as a human?
They all speak about Messiah.
Is Messiah God in your opinion?
You don’t want to answer my question?
I’ll be happy to answer yours, but first, please let me know if you intend to answer mine: Who was Jesus in your view? A mortal man? An angel? What?
Originally posted by @eladar Thanks for sharing your opinion.
It is the clearest statement in the Bible by Christ about who he is and it is stated by Simon Peter, who got this information from God. God revealed it to Peter who Jesus was.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said,
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him,
Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 16:15-17 KJV)
Jesus said that God revealed it to Peter that He was the Christ the Son of God Thats all a disciple of Christ needs to know and to believe. If your church preaches another doctrine, then clearly they did not get that doctrine from God . Your doctrine is of flesh and blood and not of God.
Originally posted by @rajk999 It is the clearest statement in the Bible by Christ about who he is and it is stated by Simon Peter, who got this information from God. [b]God revealed it to Peter who Jesus was.
[i]He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said,
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto h ...[text shortened]... ly they did not get that doctrine from God . Your doctrine is of flesh and blood and not of God.[/b]
You are free to believe as you wish. No need to rationalize your false beliefs to me.
Originally posted by @eladar You are free to believe as you wish. No need to rationalize your false beliefs to me.
You are a brave soul to refer to the clear teachings of Jesus Christ as false teachings. Your doctrine is revealed by flesh and blood, and the truth is revealed by the Father in heaven.
Originally posted by @rajk999 You are a brave soul to refer to the clear teachings of Jesus Christ as false teachings. Your doctrine is revealed by flesh and blood, and the truth is revealed by the Father in heaven.
Lol..I am sure the spirit within you presents your beliefs that way.
Originally posted by @chaney3 We can likely agree that He was a human man. After that, it gets difficult.
What is Messiah?
What is Son of God?
What is Word?
My answer, basically, is that I don't know.
He refers to God SO many times as Father (who He also prayed to), that it's hard to believe He was God, as many claim He is.
To gain an understanding of the basics of the term "Messiah", read the following in its entirety.
The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.
The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page.
What Will the Mashiach Do?
Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).
What About Jesus?
Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.
On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.
Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the entry for meshiekh in The New Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past.
Biblical Passages Referring to the Mashiach
The following passages in the Jewish scriptures are the ones that Jews consider to be messianic in nature or relating to the end of days. These are the ones that we rely upon in developing our messianic concept:
• Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
• Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
• Ezekiel 38:16
• Hosea 3:4-3:5
• Micah 4
• Zephaniah 3:9
• Zechariah 14:9
• Daniel 10:14
If you want to know how Jews interpret the passages that Christians consider to be messianic, see the FAQ on the Jews for Judaism website (a counter-missionary organization not associated with this website.
01 Jun '18 00:28
The Jesus Question
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