1. Joined
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    25 May '13 08:261 edit
    I've been asking robbie carrobie a question in another thread and (as usual) struggling to get a straight answer. The question is:

    Will a person be excluded from the opportunity to receive eternal life because they are not a member of the Jehovah Witness organisation?

    Please note I am not asking:
    Who will be saved from the tribulation
    Who will receive eternal life
    Who will not receive eternal life
    Or any other peripheral permutation of the question

    The question I'm asking about the relevance of non-membership of the JW organisation and it's impact on eternal life as described and depicted by JW literature.

    Why is this question an apparent dilemma for them? Well firstly they are disinclined to respond directly which is indicative of a difficultly in answering the question, but let's consider the response options:

    1) Yes, a person will be excluded from eternal life if they are not a JW.

    Dilemma rational: The claim is unsupportable in Biblical scripture and reinforces the cult perception the organisation already has which will deter potential new members.

    2) No, a person can still be eligible for eternal life if they are not a member of the JW organisation.

    Dilemma rational: Obviously there are other routes to eternal life other than the JW organisation which makes their claim of being the sole holders of God's truth on earth at best an error and at worst a fabrication. (Incidentally the claim is also unsupportable in scripture)

    3) We don't know whether or not a person would be precluded from eternal life if they were not a member of the JW organisation

    Dilemma rational: One would expect a religious organisation to have addressed this question themselves and the answer is critical information to the seeker, however saying one doesn't know something is not in itself a bad thing, unless of course you are the "sole holders of God's truth on earth". Furthermore, adopting this position allows for the 2nd point of the dilemma (above) to play a stronger argument in a seekers journey and ignore the JWs based on their other strange beliefs.

    I have no doubt that our resident JWs will either ignore this OP completely or frantically hem and haw as they usually do. It is worth remembering that this question firmly asked is the one that will stop them knocking at your door.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    25 May '13 10:47
    Since JWs apparently believe that they are the only "true Christians", then certainly they must believe your premise as well.
  3. Maryland
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    25 May '13 15:12
    Let's get more practical! Would a JW go to heaven if he or she donated blood and saved a person's life?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 May '13 20:451 edit
    Originally posted by 667joe
    Let's get more practical! Would a JW go to heaven if he or she donated blood and saved a person's life?
    Oh! An abominable sin indeed! 😀

    Actually, they are not looking to go the heaven anyway. They want to live on a paradise earth.

    The Instructor
  5. Joined
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    25 May '13 20:533 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Oh! An abominable sin indeed! 😀

    Actually, they are not looking to go the heaven anyway. They want to live on a paradise earth.

    The Instructor
    people knock you for being a creationist. I think JWs cynicism of modern medicine is well founded (more so then literal creationism) I think its sad they decline treatment sometimes but we all die. to be harsh of medicine i studied it and grew so cynical. Cannabis is missing there should be an acre where theres a foot note. Morphine. can JWs use that, it goes back to biblical times? after that the only crucial drug they miss out on is penicillin . and i think mouldy bread can work... I would trade biblical medicine for modern medicine in many things, just not the sacrifices.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 May '13 21:09
    Originally posted by e4chris
    people knock you for being a creationist. I think JWs cynicism of modern medicine is well founded (more so then literal creationism) I think its sad they decline treatment sometimes but we all die. to be harsh of medicine i studied it and grew so cynical. Cannabis is missing there should be an acre where theres a foot note. Morphine. can /jW use that, it goe ...[text shortened]... ... I would trade biblical medicine for modern medicine in many things, just not the sacrifices.
    It is certain that modern medicine is not perfected, but it is much better than going back to the Dark Ages. Besides, we don't have nearly enough Jesus healers to do the job.

    The Instructor
  7. Joined
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    25 May '13 21:323 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It is certain that modern medicine is not perfected, but it is much better than going back to the Dark Ages. Besides, we don't have nearly enough Jesus healers to do the job.

    The Instructor
    They still use things like ECT, I think they still use a platinum based anti cancer drug from the 1900s sometimes (and not because its particualy good) and theres so many rubbish pills for mental problems up till a few years ago you were better of without them but the Drs pushed them. (they are better but olanzapine for example makes some people fat even though it does have benefits) I had an interesting conversation with a Dutch Doctor who said not prescribing pills was the key to keeping his patients healthy, apparently in Holland they are very reluctant to prescribe and the stats show it works.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 May '13 21:58
    Originally posted by e4chris
    They still use things like ECT, I think they still use a platinum based anti cancer drug from the 1900s sometimes (and not because its particualy good) and theres so many rubbish pills for mental problems up till a few years ago you were better of without them but the Drs pushed them. (they are better but olanzapine for example makes some people fat even th ...[text shortened]... healthy, apparently in Holland they are very reluctant to prescribe and the stats show it works.
    Perhaps the key is knowing when to prescribe pills and when to do something else.

    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
    Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
    Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
    I also will forget your children.


    (Hosea 4:6 NKJV)

    The instructor
  9. Dublin Ireland
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    25 May '13 22:08
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I've been asking robbie carrobie a question in another thread and (as usual) struggling to get a straight answer. The question is:

    [b]Will a person be excluded from the opportunity to receive eternal life because they are not a member of the Jehovah Witness organisation?


    Please note I am not asking:
    Who will be saved from the tri ...[text shortened]... that this question firmly asked is the one that will stop them knocking at your door.[/b]
    If you believe any religion ( and I do not )

    then the righteous shall be saved and others will not.

    So it depends on what you believe to be righteous.

    There are lots of people out there who are telling you
    that this is righteous and this is not.

    Their opinions differ so greatly that it makes all religions farcical.

    So here is my take on it, no matter what religion you want to take on.


    Love one another, help one another, do unto others what you would
    like them to do unto you. Be helpful, be constructive.

    Do not bear false witness. Tell the truth always.

    If you can be a decent human being then maybe others can learn
    and be the same.

    That is the proper way to live.

    How many times must people say it?
  10. Joined
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    25 May '13 22:281 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Perhaps the key is knowing when to prescribe pills and when to do something else.

    [b]My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
    Because you have rejected knowledge,
    I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
    Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
    I also will forget your children.


    (Hosea 4:6 NKJV)

    The instructor[/b]
    good quote

    I'm not advocating a mallet and saw for broken legs but i don't like modern medicine, i avoid it, but do give it credit when it produces silver bullets - drugs without side effect or drugs that work against something serious - but there are gaping holes and a lack of understanding of cannabis it has a big evolutionairy role in humans - it receptor duh - only plant to have one - and the lies about it make me see lies and there are plenty about prescription drugs.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 May '13 01:48
    Originally posted by e4chris
    good quote

    I'm not advocating a mallet and saw for broken legs but i don't like modern medicine, i avoid it, but do give it credit when it produces silver bullets - drugs without side effect or drugs that work against something serious - but there are gaping holes and a lack of understanding of cannabis it has a big evolutionairy role in humans - it recep ...[text shortened]... ve one - and the lies about it make me see lies and there are plenty about prescription drugs.
    The USA has to deal with OBama Care because of the Deceiver that was voted into the White House -- not just once, but twice. He did not even run for office under his true name.

    The Instructor
  12. Joined
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    26 May '13 14:05
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The USA has to deal with OBama Care because of the Deceiver that was voted into the White House -- not just once, but twice. He did not even run for office under his true name.

    The Instructor
    Would you propose a different form of government?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 May '13 15:20
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Would you propose a different form of government?
    Perhaps a government ruled with a rod of iron by the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Sound good?

    The Instructor
  14. Joined
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    27 May '13 04:03
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Since JWs apparently believe that they are the only "true Christians", then certainly they must believe your premise as well.
    Perhaps, but they are avoiding this thread as predicted.
  15. Joined
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    29 May '13 09:17
    Polite bump for robbie carrobie or Galveston.
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