The Role of the Unrepentant Skeptic

Originally posted by dj2becker
I didn't ask whether you have the ability to reject something that you have already decided is 'credible'. Do you not decide what is credible and what is not? Do you not have a free will? Are you some kind of programmed robot that is pre programmed to find only certain things credible?

In supernatural matters, I think people realize that things are credible to them or perhaps realize that they are not. I don't think they "decide". I don't think it's a "choice", no.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ok so you are a robot with no free will, you cannot decide what is credible and what is not. Good to know.

I cannot decide to believe some supernatural thing that I find incredible. I don't think "free will" is about that at all. Yeah, sure, people are "free" to do and think and believe what they want. And if you keep suggesting I am a "robot" over and over again, do you think it's going to eventually make me agree with you.

Originally posted by FMF
In supernatural matters, I think people realize that things are credible to them or perhaps realize that they are not. I don't think they "decide". I don't think it's a "choice", no.

If we are forced to believe things and cannot choose to believe anything, then is it irrelevant whether that which we believe in is true or false?

Originally posted by dj2becker
If we are forced to believe things and cannot choose to believe anything, then is it irrelevant whether that which we believe in is true or false?

"Forced" to believe things? What are you on about?

Originally posted by FMF
I cannot decide to believe some supernatural thing that I find incredible. I don't think "free will" is about that at all. Yeah, sure, people are "free" to do and think and believe what they want. And if you keep suggesting I am a "robot" over and over again, do you think it's going to eventually make me agree with you.

I cannot decide to believe some supernatural thing that I find incredible.

But you can decide that some supernatural thing is not credible, just as you can decide that something is credible. By weighing up evidence and applying logic. Or are you trying to imply that you are incapable of weighing up evidence, applying logic and making an informed decision?

Originally posted by FMF
"Forced" to believe things? What are you on about?

Well either you can choose to believe something or reject something or you are forced to believe something or reject something. What other option is there?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Well either you can choose to believe something or reject something or you are forced to believe something or reject something. What other option is there?

You mean like I am "forced" to believe that I must breathe in order to live? "Forced" in that sense?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Or are you trying to imply that you are incapable of weighing up evidence, applying logic and making an informed decision?

I am saying that I am incapable of choosing to be a Hindu, for example.

Originally posted by FMF
You mean like I am "forced" to believe that I must breathe in order to live? "Forced" in that sense?

Forced as in you don't have a choice.

Originally posted by FMF
I am saying that I am incapable of choosing to be a Hindu, for example.

Because you have weighed up the evidence, applied logic and decided that Hinduism doesn't make sense?

Originally posted by dj2becker
But you can decide that some supernatural thing is not credible, just as you can decide that something is credible. By weighing up evidence and applying logic.

I think religious belief is a kind of intuitive and emotional thing. I find that religious people who realize that they believe in supernatural causality - that is to say, it appeals to their imagination or to their perception of themselves and their lives - come up with most of their stuff about "weighing up evidence" and "applying logic" after the event, or as an ongoing process of confirmation bias.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Because you have weighed up the evidence, applied logic and decided that Hinduism doesn't make sense?

I'd lean more towards it being because I wasn't born into a Hindu family or culture.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Forced as in you don't have a choice.

So you mean like "forced" to believe that I must breathe because I don't have a choice ~ it's breathe/live or not breathe/die? "Forced" in that way?

Originally posted by FMF
I think religious belief is a kind of intuitive and emotional thing. I find that religious people who realize that they believe in supernatural causality - that is to say, it appeals to their imagination or to their perception of themselves and their lives - come up with most of their stuff about "weighing up evidence" and "applying logic" after the event, or as an ongoing process of confirmation bias.

So tell me exactly why you are incapable of choosing to be a Hindu. I could tell you exactly why I choose not to be one. I believe I have a choice in the matter and so do you.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I could tell you exactly why I choose not to be [a Hindu].

More to the point, do you have the "free will" to choose to be a Hindu even if you don't believe the stuff that Hindus believe?