Originally posted by FreakyKBHTo that question of faith: Since the bible god is either non-existent or just absent, it doesn't matter what you believe, since there is no heaven and there is no hell. The only heaven or hell people make are right here on Earth and when you die you are dead and only other people will remember you. But religious people are so programmed they are afraid to actually live for fear of pisssing off their god. Just another way religions keep the human race from reaching true maturity instead we have thousands of years of religious warfare which is going on as we speak. A real god would never set up such religions that fight each other to death. It is all man made bullshyte just like your man made flatass bullshyte.
[Without sifting through all the pages thus far, if my response is a repetition, I beg forgiveness.
When you get to the part that sounds like a repeat, just thumb me down and move on to the next.]
[b]For the sake of argument, let's say the bible is absolutely correct, at least on the significant things related to doctrine.
Kind of a shaky start, b ...[text shortened]... e of us are charged with that fundamental question of faith:
Can I trust God's goodness?[/b]
Originally posted by FreakyKBHGod is not said to cause anyone's final disposition as much as He is said to know everyone's final disposition, i.e., either with Him, or without.
[Without sifting through all the pages thus far, if my response is a repetition, I beg forgiveness.
When you get to the part that sounds like a repeat, just thumb me down and move on to the next.]
[b]For the sake of argument, let's say the bible is absolutely correct, at least on the significant things related to doctrine.
Kind of a shaky start, b ...[text shortened]... e of us are charged with that fundamental question of faith:
Can I trust God's goodness?[/b]
He gave everyone an inviolable mind, will, soul: what anyone does with the same is on them.
Oh I see. So this god of yours creates the sceptic with free will, but it knows what choices the sceptic will make. It then punishes the sceptic for making the choices that it knew he would make when it created him. But you maintain that it's the sceptic's fault for making the choices that this loving god of yours knew he was going to make although being omnipotent it could obviously have made him so he would have made the 'right' choices if he'd had a mind to. And you have no trouble swallowing that crap?
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Originally posted by avalanchethecatOf course you would prefer to have been made a robot without free will so that you have no accountability to anyone and so that you could blame all the bad stuff you do on the one that made you, isn't that right? With a free will the choices you make are on you.
[b]God is not said to cause anyone's final disposition as much as He is said to know everyone's final disposition, i.e., either with Him, or without.
He gave everyone an inviolable mind, will, soul: what anyone does with the same is on them.
Oh I see. So this god of yours creates the sceptic with free will, but it knows what choices the scep ...[text shortened]... ade the 'right' choices if he'd had a mind to. And you have no trouble swallowing that crap?
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Originally posted by dj2beckerYou think knowingly making a revelation unbelievable to billions of people is an exercise in promoting "free will"?
Of course you would prefer to have been made a robot without free will so that you have no accountability to anyone and so that you could blame all the bad stuff you do on the one that made you, isn't that right? With a free will the choices you make are on you.
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Originally posted by sonhousebelievers* are walking realities that set higher standards then most in society would. they are part of a free world that we created.
To that question of faith: Since the bible god is either non-existent or just absent, it doesn't matter what you believe, since there is no heaven and there is no hell. The only heaven or hell people make are right here on Earth and when you die you are dead and only other people will remember you. But religious people are so programmed they are afraid to a ...[text shortened]... ght each other to death. It is all man made bullshyte just like your man made flatass bullshyte.
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Originally posted by dj2beckerThat's right, when it comes to supernatural things, people cannot somehow choose to believe something that they find unbelievable. The mechanism you are talking about is a clunky, convoluted thing that sounds 100% like an imaginative figment and mere human invention. A supernatural being could reveal itself credibly to humanity and set its terms, and then each human being could then exercise its "free will" to obey or not. Your 'thought game' version of "free will" as it applies to stuff many people just find incredible, feels a bit like a parlour trick, or like a sci-fi novel plot device.
You assume that people cannot choose what to believe in and what not to? If not how is that 'free will'?
Originally posted by avalanchethecatNo one is going to have an excuse, being a "sceptic" is not going to fly since everything
[b]God is not said to cause anyone's final disposition as much as He is said to know everyone's final disposition, i.e., either with Him, or without.
He gave everyone an inviolable mind, will, soul: what anyone does with the same is on them.
Oh I see. So this god of yours creates the sceptic with free will, but it knows what choices the scep ...[text shortened]... ade the 'right' choices if he'd had a mind to. And you have no trouble swallowing that crap?
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required to know the truth has been provided, but if you reject it, it will be on you. We are
all going to stand before God and everything is going to be revealed, our words, our
deeds, and our secrets. Do you believe that those that did know but just wanted to deny
are going to stand better off than those that did know and did evil anyway?
Originally posted by dj2beckerSome choose that just because they don't want to acknowledge what they know to be true
You assume that people cannot choose what to believe in and what not to? If not how is that 'free will'?
and walk it out. It is easier to be filled with hate and discontent than to care about others.
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Originally posted by FMFWhen it comes to supernatural things people can choose to reject said things, no?
That's right, when it comes to supernatural things, people cannot somehow choose to believe something that they find unbelievable. The mechanism you are talking about is a clunky, convoluted thing that sounds 100% like an imaginative figment and mere human invention. A supernatural being could reveal itself credibly to humanity and set its terms, and then each h ...[text shortened]... ple just find incredible, feels a bit like a parlour trick, or like a sci-fi novel plot device.
Are you or are you not rejecting the Bible as God's revelation to mankind? Is this rejection of yours not a choice that you made?
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat is it you think non-believers "know to be true", KellyJay? Your whole perception of belief and non-belief seems to be constructed on little nonsensical building blocks like these: "they just don't want to acknowledge [the truth]" and "they know [it] to be true".
Some choose that just because they don't want to acknowledge what they know to be true and walk it out.
These claims of yours are false. They may satisfy you in some way. But they are essentially nothing but meaningless assertions. If you're just talking to yourself, OK, fine, but aren't you involved in a discourse with people who have different beliefs from you?
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Originally posted by dj2beckerNo. I don't believe so. Not if they find them credible. If they realize they find some things credible, they cannot choose to reject them. Just as, if they find them incredible, they can't just choose to accept them. Not when it comes to supernatural things.
When it comes to supernatural things people can choose to reject said things, no?
Originally posted by dj2beckerI used to believe in it. And, therefore, I used to be a Christian. After a long process of contemplation, I realized I didn't believe it anymore. When I was a believer, I couldn't "choose" not to be. Just as now, I cannot "choose" to be one again.
Are you or are you not rejecting the Bible as God's revelation to mankind? Is this rejection of yours not a choice that you made?
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Originally posted by FMFI didn't ask whether you have the ability to reject something that you have already decided is 'credible'. Do you not decide what is credible and what is not? Do you not have a free will? Are you some kind of programmed robot that is pre programmed to find only certain things credible?
No. I don't believe so. Not if they find them credible. If they realize they find some things credible, they cannot choose reject them. Just as, if they find them incredible, they can't just choose to accept them. Not when it comes to supernatural things.
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Originally posted by FMFOk so you are a robot with no free will, you cannot decide what is credible and what is not. Good to know.
I used to believe in it. And, therefore, I used to be a Christian. After a long process of contemplation, I realized I didn't believe it anymore. When I was a believer, I couldn't "choose" not to be. Just as now, I cannot "choose" to be one again.