Spirituality
06 May 17
08 May 17
Originally posted by avalanchethecatNo I am saying that they preferred their lives as is over what is good and loving which is what God desires, so they get to stay the path that they desire and will reap what they sow.
Are you suggesting that god didn't know that the unrepentant sceptic would not repent when it created him/her?
Originally posted by KellyJayBut god knew that they would do that. That's how it made them. What sort of a god makes things just to punish them? This is the god you worship?
No I am saying that they preferred their lives as is over what is good and loving which is what God desires, so they get to stay the path that they desire and will reap what they sow.
Originally posted by KellyJayYour alleged omniscient god, all knowing and such, would know the result of any godly test before it was ever administered, would know exactly who would go to your hell and so forth from the day it created the universe, so the gist of that is it created people specifically to go to hell since in knew what it was doing from day one.
You are talking as if no choice was involved.
Further it would never have needed to make up tests of loyalty and such since it knew the past present and future of every human on the planet and presumably every other life force in the universe.
So that story kind of falls apart from the get go, but the people who made that stuff up did not think through the consequences of that of which they were trying to invoke.
That is clearly why it is all made up by men to control other men and put women down a few notches, encode that stuff in the bible so the ones on top conveniently are the ones who are the conduit to this non-existent god.
In other words, a giant scam.
08 May 17
Originally posted by sonhouseAnyone but God creating a universe where others choose, I would agree with you. The God of the Bible is the only One I believe can create others with choice. There are more than a few I believe are going Hell betting against Him being able to.
Your alleged omniscient god, all knowing and such, would know the result of any godly test before it was ever administered, would know exactly who would go to your hell and so forth from the day it created the universe, so the gist of that is it created people specifically to go to hell since in knew what it was doing from day one.
Further it would neve ...[text shortened]... tly are the ones who are the conduit to this non-existent god.
In other words, a giant scam.
Originally posted by KellyJaySo it creates them with choice, but it already knows what choice they will make. So it is effectively creating people who will choose not to believe in it. So it is creating people in order to punish them for doing exactly what it created them to do. Does this not strike you as pretty fecked up?
Anyone but God creating a universe where others choose, I would agree with you. The God of the Bible is the only One I believe can create others with choice. There are more than a few I believe are going Hell betting against Him being able to.
08 May 17
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, and the argument comes full circle. We are all sinners so therefor ...
The thing is all of us are sinners, every single one without exception, that is scripture not
my opinion. We are sinners who follow our fleshly desires, that is scripture not my opinion.
As we walk out life in the flesh we cannot please God and are hostile towards Him, that
is scripture not my opinion. Without God's Spirit in you, you do not belong to God, and that
too is scripture is isn't a matter of opinion.
Why not focus on the positive, on reality? We have the power to stop sinning, just to cite your vernacular, but Christians like you continually tell us "nope" , we're sinners til the end, cant help it without a crutch, imean god.
Originally posted by karoly aczelFascinating how defensive most Christians seem to get about their belief that it's impossible for anyone to stop committing sin, isn't it?
Yes, and the argument comes full circle. We are all sinners so therefor ...
Why not focus on the positive, on reality? We have the power to stop sinning, just to cite your vernacular, but Christians like you continually tell us "nope" , we're sinners til the end, cant help it without a crutch, imean god.
This despite the fact that Jesus said otherwise:
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
--Those who commit sin are slaves.
" 31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
--Those who are true disciples of Jesus are freed from the slavery of committing sin and are no longer slaves.
"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
--Jesus reemphasizes that his true disciples are indeed made free from committing sin.
" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.
And God said otherwise:
Ezekiel 18
26If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
30“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
--Once again, those who continue to commit sin will not "live". Those who no longer commit sin will "live"..
It's a way for them to avoid taking responsibility. It's not their fault. It's Adam and Eve's fault.
08 May 17
Originally posted by karoly aczelThis will not be an argument before God that will stand, hence those in the flesh are at odds with God.
Yes, and the argument comes full circle. We are all sinners so therefor ...
Why not focus on the positive, on reality? We have the power to stop sinning, just to cite your vernacular, but Christians like you continually tell us "nope" , we're sinners til the end, cant help it without a crutch, imean god.
08 May 17
Originally posted by karoly aczelIf you did stop today what would you do for all you did before? I believe it's very possible to stop sinning; however, it also very possible to sin. So we need Jesus Christ in our daily walk.
Yes, and the argument comes full circle. We are all sinners so therefor ...
Why not focus on the positive, on reality? We have the power to stop sinning, just to cite your vernacular, but Christians like you continually tell us "nope" , we're sinners til the end, cant help it without a crutch, imean god.
Originally posted by KellyJayAccording to God, after no longer committing sin, none of his transgressions will be remembered. No additional "atonement" is necessary - true repentance is sufficient for God.
If you did stop today what would you do for all you did before? I believe it's very possible to stop sinning; however, it also very possible to sin. So we need Jesus Christ in our daily walk.
Ezekiel 18
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey[Without sifting through all the pages thus far, if my response is a repetition, I beg forgiveness.
This one gets me thinking. For the sake of argument, let's say the bible is absolutely correct, at least on the significant things related to doctrine.
God is omniscient, and knows everything that has or will come to pass. This means that in the case of the skeptic that dies in a state of unbelief and unrepentance -- God pre-ordained his or her life ...[text shortened]... have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all." (replace loved with lived)
Thoughts?
When you get to the part that sounds like a repeat, just thumb me down and move on to the next.]
For the sake of argument, let's say the bible is absolutely correct, at least on the significant things related to doctrine.
Kind of a shaky start, but we can give you some wiggle room.
God is omniscient, and knows everything that has or will come to pass.
Not only that, He knows everything that should have come, could have come to pass--- the entire universe of universes of if.
That's cool, without question.
God pre-ordained his or her life from beginning to bitter, tragic end.
Mixing metaphors, so it's the whole GIGO problem.
God is not said to cause anyone's final disposition as much as He is said to know everyone's final disposition, i.e., either with Him, or without.
He gave everyone an inviolable mind, will, soul: what anyone does with the same is on them.
For what purpose?
That's three words upon which and about which all the books in the world would fall short in explaining.
The more accurate question, however, is: Is God really good? since that is what is being questioned.
To that, each and everyone of us are charged with that fundamental question of faith:
Can I trust God's goodness?