Spirituality
27 May 19
03 Jun 19
@rajk999 saidIf a normal life is evil, wicked and such you find fault with God? All have sinned that makes a normal life anti God.
Eternal torment is just punishment for 20 years of living a normal life ?
Like I keep saying the church has badly screwed up your ability to think clearly.
03 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidAre you seriously suggesting that the billions of people who lived in the world over the last few thousands of years were all evil if they did not know of Jesus Christ ?
If a normal life is evil, wicked and such you find fault with God? All have sinned that makes a normal life anti God.
If not what criteria are you using to determine that all people are evil and wicked?
03 Jun 19
@rajk999 saidAccording to scripture all have sinned and fallen short.
Are you seriously suggesting that the billions of people who lived in the world over the last few thousands of years were all evil if they did not know of Jesus Christ ?
If not what criteria are you using to determine that all people are evil and wicked?
You believe that there are people who don’t need Jesus Christ as savior?
@kellyjay saidAnd I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
When the books are opened how do you read the scriptures?
(Revelation 20:12 KJV)
They were judged according to their works
Those who did good works entered the Kingdom of God. Not a word about knowing Christ, about faith, about trusting in God for eternal life, neither anything about trying to earn ones salvation.. none of that church BS is in the bible. The rest were cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.
- Joined
- 06 May 15
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03 Jun 19
2 edits
If scripture leads us to bickering and antagonism, rather than a grander, kinder, and more forgiving worldview and way of being, is it really holy?
Or, from the other side, if we find justification for bickering and antagonism in scripture, are we really making the best use of it?
Sometimes I think we get too lost in the words, even the words of scripture, when we should be using those as guides to get into the mind of Christ (or the One behind the scenes for the more universalist among us).
"Love's in Need of Love Today" -- Mr. Stevie Wonder
03 Jun 19
@caesar-salad saidThink not that I am come to send peace on earth:
If scripture leads us to bickering and antagonism, rather than a grander, kinder, and more forgiving worldview and way of being, is it really holy?
Or, from the other side, if we find justification for bickering and antagonism in scripture, are we really making the best use of it?
Sometimes I think we get too lost in the words, even the words of scripture, when we ...[text shortened]... e scenes for the more universalist among us).
"Love's in Need of Love Today" -- Mr. Stevie Wonder
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother,
and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it:
and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me
receiveth him that sent me.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward;
and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple,
verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
(Matthew 10:34-42 KJV)
03 Jun 19
@rajk999 saidRevelation 20:
All have sinned and fallen short, therefore eternal torment is the punishment?
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
03 Jun 19
@rajk999 saidYou are adding to the word again, changing the text to suit you.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Revelation 20:12 KJV)
They were judged according to their works
Those who did good works entered the Kingdom of ...[text shortened]... n.. none of that church BS is in the bible. The rest were cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.
03 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidDid you see that I quoted that already?
Revelation 20:
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to ...[text shortened]... And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Where is the part about eternal torment in that passage?
04 Jun 19
@rajk999 saidSingle passages should probably be read in the context of the whole Bible, correct?
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Revelation 20:12 KJV)
They were judged according to their works
Those who did good works entered the Kingdom of ...[text shortened]... n.. none of that church BS is in the bible. The rest were cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.
In many other places, it is said that it is through faith in God that one enters the Kingdom of God...
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 4:What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[b]
Of course, our faith animates our works, and we are not to be people who absolutely never lift a figner for our faith, but at the same time, it is not through works that we are justified.
Your salvation through works doctrine, which includes this notion that people who do not know God at all will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, is a heresy.
- Joined
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04 Jun 19
@philokalia saidHeresy = "You don't believe the particular nonsense required to be a member of our cult."
Your salvation through works doctrine, which includes this notion that people who do not know God at all will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, is a heresy.