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Originally posted by FMFWell clearly you think you know how to run the universe and God doesn't. No surprise there.
The only meaningful thing I see in your contribution to this discussion of "justice" is that you are floundering. Once your slogans are ruffled, and your bizarre 'thought exercises' and analogies collapse under the weight of their own contrivance, you have nothing to offer but your wriggling and your pretentious evasions. Under questioning about the central conceit of your religion, you have nothing much more than 'my god says so' to offer.
Originally posted by 667joeWithout the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin!
Are you glad Jesus was crucified,(if so, are you a sadist?), or do you think the crucifixion of Jesus should have been avoided? Couldn't Jesus forgive your sins without being crucified? In other words, was the crucifixion truly necessary?
Let's say I am not a Christian. I violate person X in some way. I then become a Christian and believe in Jesus. I ask Jesus to forgive my violation of person X. Jesus gives me forgiveness, It seems to me this is immoral because I should ask person X for forgiveness and make amends. Accepting forgiveness from Jesus gets me off the hook, but does nothing to help person X. What If I murdered person X and could not ask for forgiveness from him, or make amends? Believing in Jesus gets me off scot free (at least in the after life). This is why Christianity is dangerous and immoral. It provides a way for people to avoid responsibility for their actions and takes the focus off the individual sinned against.
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Originally posted by 667joeJesus died for everyone's sins yours and everyone else's. We are told to forgive everyone because we are forgiven all our sins. They condemned Jesus for forgiving people's sins when He was healing them now we are told to do the same, forgive those who sin against us. As He paid the price for every single sin there is not one He isn't personally involved in, which makes His grace so powerful and outstanding. Those who despise Jesus work will die in their sins.
Let's say I am not a Christian. I violate person X in some way. I then become a Christian and believe in Jesus. I ask Jesus to forgive my violation of person X. Jesus gives me forgiveness, It seems to me this is immoral because I should ask person X for forgiveness and make amends. Accepting forgiveness from Jesus gets me off the hook, but does nothing to ...[text shortened]... o avoid responsibility for their actions and takes the focus off the individual sinned against.
Originally posted by 667joeEven more powerful is if they forgive you without you asking for forgiveness.
Let's say I am not a Christian. I violate person X in some way. I then become a Christian and believe in Jesus. I ask Jesus to forgive my violation of person X. Jesus gives me forgiveness, It seems to me this is immoral because I should ask person X for forgiveness and make amends. Accepting forgiveness from Jesus gets me off the hook, but does nothing to ...[text shortened]... o avoid responsibility for their actions and takes the focus off the individual sinned against.
- Joined
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Originally posted by 667joeRestitution is a key biblical principle.
Let's say I am not a Christian. I violate person X in some way. I then become a Christian and believe in Jesus. I ask Jesus to forgive my violation of person X. Jesus gives me forgiveness, It seems to me this is immoral because I should ask person X for forgiveness and make amends. Accepting forgiveness from Jesus gets me off the hook, but does nothing to ...[text shortened]... o avoid responsibility for their actions and takes the focus off the individual sinned against.
(Exodus 22:1, 3-6, 14; Leviticus 6:2-5; Luke 19; Romans 10:10)
