Understanding Leviticus

Originally posted by @sonship
I don't know what you "got" but don't thank me.

See if you can put together two consecutive positive sentences that encourages the sinner to come to Jesus for salvation. I mean we've seen plenty of your enthusiasm for public executions already in many threads.

Have you ever heard of the expression [b]"the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15) ?[/b]

See if you can tell the truth. Encouraging people to believe a lie in the name of Jesus is leading people to Satan.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Why is this important to you? That god commanded the execution of homosexuals.

The importance is the rejection of sin. Those who pretend that homosexuality is acceptable to the Lord are worshippers of Satan, even if they claim to follow Jesus.

Originally posted by @eladar
The importance is the rejection of sin. Those who pretend that homosexuality is acceptable to the Lord are worshippers of Satan, even if they claim to follow Jesus.

Just trying to understand you then...so now that you feel that executing homosexuals is NOT morally acceptable can you explain what has happened please? Has God's moral standard changed? Is homosexuality ok now and they no longer need to be executed?

Originally posted by @sonship
Maybe. But can't lose. I enjoy the word of God and it gives me a chance to study it too!

Sorry if you have nothing so exciting to live for.

I have the entire universe to live for. At least the universe is real.

Originally posted by @sonship

You will find that I am going to attempt to cause you to become a theist completely, and one recognizing that Jesus is God.

Of course you are and like many on the internet I may crave the attention 😛

I left what I would call fundamentalist/evangelical form of Christianity as the mini revival of the 1970's faded, and gradually took up what my sister calls "the woolly position", so I think you will have your work cut out to change my views. Quite frankly I find the continual minutest examination of the Biblical scriptures, with all their interpretations and allegories, unbelievably tedious and often beside the point - as Screwtape no doubt intended 😛

I became interested in general mysticism and then Christian Mysticism particularly - as that was my culture and upbringing I felt it resonated, and with its emphasis on a personal experience of the divine I could leave behind credal statements, and an over reliance on scripture, and the need to accept wisdom from only one source. I felt free to try other religions experience of the divine, I could indulge (minor) early church heresies such as pantheism/panentheism, all to develop an understanding of what I could call God especially as the childlike image of a man in the sky really does not cut it for me or describe my experience. I found a particular resonance for a number of years in the silence of a Quaker meeting near to where I lived at the time. No credal statements, no priesthood to play their audience, no proselytizing, a Christian heritage but open to other leadings, and a strong sense of Truth, Simplicity, Peace and Justice and action in the community. Then there is the belief that there is something of the divine in everyone, so now you know where I am coming from when I rail against a notion of God who has said "Thou shalt not kill" and then commands the opposite in a series of punishments for various sins. There is clearly a difference between a divinely inspired scripture and God appearing on prime time to tell us himself.

I accept your notion that "revelation" gains traction through time, after all, the death penalty in the UK has only repealed during my lifetime.

Anyway now that I have bared my soul so to speak and you know where I am coming from you will respect my position.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Just trying to understand you then...so now that you feel that executing homosexuals is NOT morally acceptable can you explain what has happened please? Has God's moral standard changed? Is homosexuality ok now and they no longer need to be executed?

If you care to know read my earlier post. I already answered it.

Thankyou for sharing your personal experience with us, which is always risky.

I will read your testimonial again a second time.
I have experienced sitting for 15 minutes in silence among Quakers waiting for someone to be prompted to speak from the inner light.

The All members speaking means much to me in my way of meeting. And that is definitely on a good track as a Christian meeting.

I also spent some time studying Zen Buddhism in years gone by in my search.

Originally posted by @eladar
If you care to know read my earlier post. I already answered it.

Apologies I missed it, which page and post number please?

Thank you

Originally posted by @divegeester
Apologies I missed it, which page and post number please?

Thank you

For me it is pg 10. It has to do with Israel and Jesus fulfilling the plan.

Originally posted by @ragwort

I left what I would call fundamentalist/evangelical form of Christianity as the mini revival of the 1970's faded, and gradually took up what my sister calls "the woolly position", so I think you will have your work cut out to change my views.

I moved from forms of Christianity also. But I never through out the baby with the bathwater. My inclination was to draw closer to the Lord Jesus Whom I loved.

Thousands crowded around Jesus during his three and a half years of ministry. I wondered where where they all that night when only one hundred and twenty were left in Jerusalem awaiting the promise of the Holy Spirit. As the movement "faded" a few somehow stayed close to Him.

Sometimes when things dried up or there were offenses, I would ask myself "What did Jesus Himself do to you?" My answer was always "Only good did the Lord Jesus ever do in you."

The real turning point in my spiritual growth was when I prayed a prayer that God was faithful to answer. I asked Him to put me with some Christians who could encourage me and take care of me in a "shepherding" way. That is in a disciple-ling way. God really answered that prayer. I met some lovers of Jesus who knew how to take care of the Body in mutual shepherding.

Thanks again for opening up your experience here.

Originally posted by @ragwort
I left what I would call fundamentalist/evangelical form of Christianity as the mini revival of the 1970's faded...

How would you describe your understanding of - and demeanour towards - Leviticus back when you were a "fundamentalist/evangelical"?

Originally posted by @ragwort

Quite frankly I find the continual minutest examination of the Biblical scriptures, with all their interpretations and allegories, unbelievably tedious and often beside the point - as Screwtape no doubt intended 😛

Sorry, I have not gotten to read Lewis's Screwtape Letters all the way through yet.

Above I said I asked God to lead me to some Christians who could take care of me. This was also in the seventies. I had found that I had fallen into some of my worst sins in the hub-bub of the Jesus movement.

One thing these brothers helped me to do was exercise my spirit over the word of God. That is not just mastering the information but praying over and with the words of the Bible. This really helped me to get the nourishment in my spirit from the Bible. I had a thread here over a year ago on "Prayreading" the word of God.

While opposition to it was sometime fierce I did demonstrate to readers the profit of taking the whole Bible as a prayer book. You can pray the words of Scripture turning them back towards God in praise, petition, musing, spiritual contemplation, and "mastication" to touch the life element in the word of God.

As Jeremiah wrote: "Your words were found and I did eat them. And your word became to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart." . Its there.

Anyway it was one way among some to get into the enjoyment of Christ. The "religious duty" route usually dries up. The way of loving the Lord and feeding on the Spirit has been sustaining and prevailing for many for decades.

Movements come and go. "He who eats Me he also shall live because of Me" is sustaining. A Christian can get off of the "plateau" that he has been stuck on. The problem of arrested growth can me overcome and you continue upward towards and deeper into Christ.

Originally posted by @ragwort

I felt free to try other religions experience of the divine, I could indulge (minor) early church heresies such as pantheism/panentheism, all to develop an understanding of what I could call God especially as the childlike image of a man in the sky really does not cut it for me or describe my experience.

Somehow, many of the picture book Sunday school images dropped off with me simply by getting into the Bible itself.

Another special turning point came when I read a little book called "The Hear is Christ's Home". I don't remember the author. But in my young spiritual life the book conveyed to me that Christ wanted to more and more fill up the rooms of my heart. He was IN me. And He wanted to FILL me. And He wanted to gradually room by room by room in my "heart".

The concept seemed to help me to understand the Christ who was in me as the hope. My part was to let Him make His home in my heart. That little book really helped me.

You know there are a number of posters here who could talk about their bad experiences in religion. Maybe they assume that it has always been only a bed of roses for some of us who talk about Jesus Christ. I probably could match them horror story for horror story.

Somehow, through it all, Christ Himself led me through the jungle. He has built up such a track record with me that I trust that He will continue to lead all the way to the New Jerusalem.

I found a particular resonance for a number of years in the silence of a Quaker meeting near to where I lived at the time. No credal statements, no priesthood to play their audience, no proselytizing, a Christian heritage but open to other leadings, and a strong sense of Truth,

That sounds good.
Aren't there two strands of Quakerism?

George Fox was really on to something to reject the clergy laity system. The Brethren also rejected clergy / laity hierarchical structures to simply call each other "Brothers".
Quakers also simply made the decision that all among them would simply be called "Friends". Both concepts are biblical.

Simplicity, Peace and Justice and action in the community. Then there is the belief that there is something of the divine in everyone, so now you know where I am coming from when I rail against a notion of God who has said "Thou shalt not kill" and then commands the opposite in a series of punishments for various sins. There is clearly a difference between a divinely inspired scripture and God appearing on prime time to tell us himself.

Me, I can't live without the Bible. But when I come to it I come with a willingness to touch the living God. It is dangerous to handle the Bible without simultaneously opening the heart to touch Christ.

The arguments can be endless. I think the practice of balance is good. That is a time to get out lexicons and word studies and study. But that has to be matched with simply taking in the word of God for nourishment and feeding the innermost spirit.

A bird needs two wings to fly. There is a time to analyze. But this has to be at least matched with a time when one prayerfully musing spiritually over the words of the Bible to derive the "milk" of the word. That milk of the word can cause one to grow unto salvation.

I like what Peter wrote here:

" As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation." ( 1 Pet. 2:1)

I hope one little ole verse won't nauseate you too much.

Anyway, a unique aspect of the Bible is that everyone, and I mean everyone's toes must get stepped on somewhere. There is always something to find there that you wish was not there. Whether liberal or conservative in your theology, there is always at least some part that brushes your fur the wrong way.

I think that is because no one of us is absolutely for God, except His Son, Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by @fmf
How would you describe your understanding of - and demeanour towards - Leviticus back when you were a "fundamentalist/evangelical"?

I'm not sure I ever was - it was simply the church I grew up in. I probably thought of Leviticus as a book describing early Israelite law, maybe a bit like the Magna Carta or something, and the Pastors concentrated their preaching on the New Testament.

Originally posted by @ragwort
I'm not sure I ever was - it was simply the church I grew up in. I probably thought of Leviticus as a book describing early Israelite law, maybe a bit like the Magna Carta or something, and the Pastors concentrated their preaching on the New Testament.

Christians who are not taught about the OT can be led into many false assumptions about what is sinful and what is not. As Paul said the Law is there to make us aware what is sinful.

Many church attending kids do not get a solid foundation but are told what to believe in other places.