Originally posted by no1marauder
Me vulgar? You're using a profanity that is considered one of the most offensive to women in the English language. Me gossiping? You've written tons of gossip threads in the Debate Forum regarding Michael Schiavo. Isn't that a mote in your eye?
Again you are twisting the truth. You're an obsessive liar.
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Stop preaching and apply this post to your behaviour on that vulgar and obscene gossip site, you hypocrite. Your behaviour there is vulgar, obscene and much more foulmouthed than I ever will be able to.
It's very telling that, when faced with advice about how to be a Christian -- that is,
how to be more Christ like -- you respond with insults.
I am sometimes a hypocrite. Are you ?
All people are. The difference between me and you, though, is that you are a willful
hypocrite. When Bennett, Cribs, #1, Starrman, RoyalChicken, and Darvlay have (all in the
recent past) pointed out my failings and inconsistencies, I repented of them and strived to
change my life in accordance with those discoveries. They unveiled my latent hypocrisy
and I strived to eradicate it. I should hope that they would continue to rebuke me as the
need arises.
You, on the other hand, when faced with Almighty Scripture -- the Word of God by your
own admission and within your own faith -- you choose ignore it can continue upon your
own demonstrably sinful path. It doesn't matter who points out that you are sinning, for you
know in your own heart that your actions this evening did not testify to your Christ-following
status, that your actions have been a shameful display, that Jesus never would have acted
this way. Yet you continue.
You blew up with the same shame some months ago. Did you apologize to anyone for it?
No. You pridefully claimed that it was all part of your masterplan to demonstrate how the
forums are going to pot. God knows what was in your heart when your head exploded, and
God knows what was in your heart when you made your absurd claims.
Similarly, God knows what is in your heart as you write these evil words, as you do Him no
honor by your thoughts, words and deeds. And, as you well know, the Sacrament of Confession
is only effected by sincere contrition, that the automatonic recitation of the Confiteor
confers no forgiveness in and of itself.
So, either you will 'strive to avoid these sins,' and be a good representative of your faith,
or you will continue a path of willful sinfulness. Either way, blaming me doesn't change a
darn thing.
Nemesio
Originally posted by AynatMade me tear up...
Forgive me for thread-jacking, but I much preferred the original query about the most impressive Christiam I have personally known.
Ellen C. is her name. She is a woman who is now in her mid 80's. I met her about 10 years ago, when I moved to Alaska. I had some adventures along the way and used up almost all of my money. I met her at church, she greeted me ...[text shortened]... nd. She signs her notes that way; Your friend in Jesus.
Thank you for the wonderful question.
I can't wait to meet Ellen in the sky. Thank you.
Originally posted by ivanhoebbarr was right, I do find time short. Right now my kids are napping and I should be comparing and contrasting Genesis with other Ancient Near Eastern cosmogonies in an essay. I thought I'd take a break.
Why doesn't Huntingbear discuss things on the RHP forums anymore ?
But bbarr's answer, though correct, isn't the whole story. There is another reason I rarely stop by the forums. It's the kind of thing that's happened in this thread.
I don't know where to start. Maybe I'm a little emotional because our third baby is almost due, and soon I'll have to watch my dear wife undergo all that pain and unimaginable work.
Maybe. But whatever the case, reading this thread nearly brought tears to my eyes. Sometimes I'm a bit vain, and I like to see people say nice things about me. Telerion once gave me a score of 9 out of 10 on reasonableness. That delighted me, but I doubt I'm on the right side of the sin of pride in cases like that.
This thread started that way. Some nice things were said about me which puffed me up and tempted me to spiritual pride. I don't feel so endangered now, which may be a very bad sign.
At any rate, I soon wished my name had never been typed in this thread. Long ago I knew two brothers, John and Dan. I was friends with both, but especially with John. At some stage John and Dan fell out, and really detested each other. Dan and I continued to get along fine, and he kept me out of his business with his brother. John, on the other hand, was constantly saying bad things about Dan. Not only that, but he would try to involve me in the matter by seeking my agreement about how awful his brother was. Though John and I had originally been closer than Dan and I, that started to change. I didn't want to have to choose between my two friends. I decided that the one who forced me to choose would have made the choice for me. Fortunately, I never had to make that choice because John never pushed me quite that far, and he and I remained friends. But our friendship was strained. Eventually, John and Dan were reconciled, and we all lived happily ever after.
bbarr and ivanhoe have both offended me in various ways and on many occasions. I think this thread is the first time one has tried to line me up against the other. I resent that.
I hate to see my friends fighting. I hate to see ivanhoe insult bbarr, and I hate to see bbarr insult ivanhoe. Sometimes, reading this thread, I find myself utterly frustrated and wanting to shout, "For crying out loud, Bennett, just ignore him!"
But, ivanhoe, I am beside myself when I read your posts. It is one thing when the name of the Lord is blasphemed among those who are not His people. It is another when His name is blasphemed among them because of us* and our behavior.
I'd rather read a thousand haikus and limericks, composed by non-Christians and insulting the Lord, than one single word of insult composed by a professing Christian. I'd rather see a million Christians martyred for their faith, than one Muslim killed by Christians for his.
I thought Bennett's limerick in this thread was disgusting. But I'd have it tattooed on my forehead if, by so doing, I could make sure that no one ever had to read your posts, ivanhoe, which you have made in this thread.
Is God's name blasphemed among non-Christians because of us? Yes, and you are not the only one to blame. There are other Christians in these forums who are just as bad. I'm one. I've posted things I shouldn't have. It begins with a sense of God's outrage at immorality and blasphemy. But the instant we behave toward a non-Christian in a way other than the gentleness, love, and forgiveness commanded by the Lord Himself -- in that instant it is no longer about God. It's about our outrage. If we were concerned about God's outrage, then we'd be concerned about God's love, and determined to show it in humility and forgiveness. God offers love despite His outrage, and we are called to be His children. Like Father, like Son, like sons.
If anyone here is impressed by me as a Christian, or as a human being, then you just don't understand. I'm a worm. I always have time to think about what I post, and to re-consider my rash and impolite temptations. How many malicious posts I have cancelled before submitting! You never see me at home, losing my patience with my children, those dear little gifts from God, whom it is a precious honor for me to serve, for whom I should sacrifice every single tiny thought of my own comfort and joy, instead of losing my temper when they're noisy, or they make a mess. You never see me get angry at other drivers on the road, and you never hear the foul things I say, without benefit of * 's, about my fellow-human beings, who like me bear the image of God, who just like me will occasionally drive in a careless or inconsiderate manner. You never see me struggling with other sins and temptations which I am too ashamed to mention here.
Even here, even with all the time in the world to think about what I want to say, I post things I shouldn't. I've been rude and spiteful sometimes. Throughout this whole post you won't find much Christian humility, may God forgive me.
Forget this whole thread. Forget being impressed with any Christian. If the Lord didn't call sinners to be His people, He wouldn't have any one else to call. There's nothing impressive about any of us. If this thread has served any use, if it has in any way furthered the cause of God's Kingdom, it has done so only by showing all us Christians up to be a bunch of wretched, deplorable, filthy, stinking sinners. I, for one, am not impressed.
What wretched people we are! Who will rescue us? **
Why don't I discuss things on RHP much? Sometimes, it just makes me sick.
* alluding to Romans 2:24
** alluding to Romans 7:24
Originally posted by huntingbearA fine post. Rightly humbling and rebuking all.
bbarr was right, I do find time short. Right now my kids are napping and I should be comparing and contrasting Genesis with other Ancient Near Eastern cosmogonies in an essay. I thought I'd take a break.
But bbarr's answer, though correct, isn't the whole story. There is another reason I rarely stop by the forums. It's the kind of thing that's ha ...[text shortened]... much? Sometimes, it just makes me sick.
* alluding to Romans 2:24
** alluding to Romans 7:24
My apologies to you if I've ever in any small way made you feel less inclined to
post.
Nemesio
Originally posted by huntingbearHuntingbear: "Why don't I discuss things on RHP much? Sometimes, it just makes me sick."
bbarr was right, I do find time short. Right now my kids are napping and I should be comparing and contrasting Genesis with other Ancient Near Eastern cosmogonies in an essay. I thought I'd take a break.
But bbarr's answer, though ...[text shortened]... me sick.
* alluding to Romans 2:24
** alluding to Romans 7:24
....... Why Huntingbear, do you think I had to puke yesterday ?
..... and you don't even participate in discussions about the Middle East, abortion, euthanasia and the Terri Schiavo case, just to name a few.
If you would participate in the forums on a regular basis you would experience the same anger I was experiencing yesterday, I promise you. If you are constantly called names, if you are constantly being insulted, if you are constantly being provoked and ridiculed by the bullies of the Wolfpack, I would like to see your reaction, Huntingbear. In fact I know your reaction, because you did it before. You would pack your bags and leave the forums to the arrogant bullies. Too many have done so in the past, too many will do so in the future. Only just recenly I recieved an e-mail from an RHP member who was afraid to post in the forums and state his opinion because he was afraid of receiving the well-known Wolfpack treatment. Another member announced he was not going to post in the forums anymore, because of the same reasons.
You criticise me a lot in your post, Huntingbear. But why Huntingbear aren't you participating in the discussions I mentioned ? You don't want to make your hands dirty ? You do not want to run the risk of your head exploding because of the bullying done by the usual lot ?
You don't want to damage your image of a good, civil and impressive Christian ? Or maybe you also are afraid of receiving the Wolfpack treatment by Bbarr, No1, Nemesio, DoctorScribbles, and a lot of side-kicks, whose names are too numerous to remember ? Why do you think Foulmouth Bbarr is praising you, Huntingbear ? Because you keep your beliefs about the Culture of Life to yourself ? Because you keep your Christian beliefs within the four walls of your home, just the way Mr Foulmouth likes it ? You behave the way a sheep is to behave according to the Wolfpack. That's why he is praising you skyhigh, that's why he is sucking up to you, Huntingbear.
You undoubtedly read the texts they put in their forum avatar boxes, you undoubtedly read their constant provocations in the Spirituality and Debates Forums, you undoubtedly read their vulgar and foulmouthed gossip about RHP mods, admins and members on Cribs's gossip site. How they brag about their actions, how they insult others in a foulmouthed way, how they feign they don't understand why people are becoming angry with them and how they have "reached out" in vain to those who do not understand that they are only trying to help them. To be accused by such hypocrites being a hypocrite, an idiot, a jerk, a liar, a religious bigot, a far-right gossip monger, a mass murderer, etc, etc, etc, is almost a compliment.
Yesterday I decided to pay them back in their own currency ..... believe me Huntingbear, just a little bit ...... those preaching jerks, those provoking clowns, those lying bullies, those shameless arrogant hypocrites, those "humurous" foulmouths.
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Huntingbear: "Why don't I discuss things on RHP much? Sometimes, it just makes me sick."
....... Why Huntingbear, do you think I had to puke yesterday ?
..... and you don't even participate in discussions about the Middle East, abortion, euthanasia and the Terri Schiavo case, just to name a few.
If you would participate in the forums on a regular basis you would experience the same anger I was experiencing yesterday, I promise you. If you are constantly called names, if you are constantly being insulted, if you are constantly being provoked and ridiculed by the bullies of the Wolfpack, I would like to see your reaction, Huntingbear. In fact I know your reaction, because you did it before. You would pack your bags and leave the forums to the arrogant bullies.
Ivan.
I see both you and Huntingbears points of view. Much like myself you are disgusted with blasphemers, but somehow you can stomache spending day after day putting yourself through this misery. Whilst I don't agree with Huntingbears lack of vocal support on Christian and moral values, I see where he's coming from. What is the point of this ? Are we on a Christian forum where we can discuss out faith with athiests without having to endure them riduculing God all the time ? No. We're on a forum where anything goes, eventhough you would expect atleast some form of respect for religious beliefs.
So I ask, did Jesus WANT us to preach to these people ? Do you think HE would have stood by and continued His discussions when they blasphemed His Father ? What is the spirituality forum all about ? A few Christians posting their views, love for God or disgust over some moral injustice, followed by a few athiests/agnostics trying to upset these Christians by insulting Jesus ? Then we have a few other 'Christians' who certainly do not share our views, line up and join in with these athiests. It's the same story OVER AND OVER.
At some point you need to ask yourself. "Is this what God wants from you" ? Does influencing that 'one' person on RHP justify dragging your fathers name through the mud ? Dont give what is Holy to swine, for that prophecy is fulfilled every day on RHP.
Huntingbear, I must say I don't share your point of view. If I had a friend that I praised and defended as much as you defend BBarr, I would expect at least some level of respect in return. Do you befriend people that make fun of your wife ? People that compare her to a fetus ? If your wife suffered a terrible death, would you still befriend BBarr if he put her picture up as his avatar ? Why is this any different from Jesus ? So if this is the case, what do you do ? 1. Explain to your friend why his comments are hurtfull ? If that fails and he continues, do you ignore him and sever your friendship ? What if punching him in the face right there and then would cause him to realise the extent of his actions and sort out the problem ? Jesus was disgusted by the merchants in His fathers house, yet went without resistance to the cross. Do you think Jesus befriended those that continued to blasphemed His father ? The Lord was not always a passifist, his passion for God was unequaled.
3 or 4 years ago I supported absolute passifism. The type employed by Christians during the persecutions by Nero. I don't support this view anymore. I won't continue to drag God through these daft debates merely for the slightest hope that some of it may hit home. There are far too many people that haven't heard the Gospel for me to waste time hammering the same message home to the same audience.
Ivan, RB, Darfius, please question why exactly you are preaching on RHP. You know you're all in my good books, but you need to question your motivs for preaching here. Do you all truely love these athiests so much that you have to convert them ? There are literally hundreds of people in the streets you can talk to, why spend it here ? If you want a 'brotherhood' in Christ, join a cell group. Alternately frequent christianforums.com or some other Christian orientated online forum where you know atleast discussions and reverence for God will remain. We know every worthwhile discussion we discuss here gets hi-jacked, heck the learning curve isn't quite that steep ! Do something about it, spend more time reading your Bible, or praying. The amount of time you guys spend on RHP could probably make for 3 hours Bible reading a night. Any idea how few Christians spend 3 hours reading their Bible ?
Just ask yourself exactly what it is you're getting from debating religion and faith at the forums here. Who's will are you doing ?
pc
Originally posted by ivanhoeSee, it's not about bullies and wolves. It's about whether we obey our Lord. He never told us to fight fire with fire, to give people doses of their own medicine. He taught the opposite.
Huntingbear: "Why don't I discuss things on RHP much? Sometimes, it just makes me sick."
....... Why Huntingbear, do you think I had to puke yesterday ?
..... and you don't even participate in discussions about the Middle East, abortion, euthanasia and the Terri Schiavo case, just to name a few.
If you would participate in the forums on a re ...[text shortened]... ns, those lying bullies, those shameless arrogant hypocrites, those "humurous" foulmouths.
Bennett knows where I stand on abortion, and on homosexuality, and on other hot issues. I do not keep my faith only in my home, and I am greatly tempted to anger at the suggestion that I do. Calling people NAZI's and obscene words is not the only way to make a stand.
You don't need to tell me about anger, ivanhoe. C. S. Lewis said something like, "you don't find out how strong temptation is by caving in to it." And he's right.
I used to participate in the forums regularly. I used to debate daily. I had weeks-long debates with that insulting Feivel, and never once resorted to obscenity. I became less active on the forums, even nearly inactive, but I never "packed my bags and left" in the sense of fleeing. I have a lot of work to do off-line. I have to pick my battles on-line.
But it's not about me. It's not about Bennett, and it's not about you. It's about Jesus Christ. It's not about us against them, it's about us with Him.
I only criticized your behavior because as a Christian you carry the name of my Lord.
If you honestly believe that the Lord Jesus Christ wants you to behave the way you have in this thread, in spite of the fact that God's word clearly forbids the language you have used and the manners you have adopted, then I can't fault your motive. I can only advise you that you are mistaken about the Lord's will.
I may have criticized your behavior, but you have insulted me personally. You accuse me of disowning Christ for the sake of men's approval. Well, I took a public stand for Christ today, whether you like it or not. I'm for Christians obeying Christ, that's where I make my stand. If it means I'm a wolf, then I'll take that and forgive you for it.
Originally posted by pcaspianI said Bennett's limerick was disgusting. I said I have often been offended by him, and that his behavior in this thread has been very frustrating for me. Where do you see praise and defense? Do you think that if I criticize ivanhoe's behavior I necessarily endorse Bennett's? That simply is not the case. It's not about taking sides.
If I had a friend that I praised and defended as much as you defend BBarr, I would expect at least some level of respect in return.
There is a huge difference between bbarr and ivanhoe: bbarr doesn't bear the name of Christ. He is not a follower of Jesus, and I have no reasonable expectation that he will obey Him.
And you know what? bbarr is mightily offended by some of my beliefs. Despite your assertion that I am silent about Christian morality, and ivanhoe's that I pack up and flee the forums, bbarr knows exactly where I stand on certain moral issues. You and ivanhoe are simply wrong when you say that I will not make a stand for Christ. I make one every single time I decide to obey the Lord rather than to gratify my own emotions in a display of anger and hate.
Whatever you are filled up with is what spills out when you're jostled. How much of the Holy Spirit has spilled out in this thread?
Originally posted by huntingbear
See, it's not about bullies and wolves. It's about whether we obey our Lord. He never told us to fight fire with fire, to give people doses of their own medicine. He taught the opposite.
Bennett knows where I stand on abortion, and on homosexuality, and on other hot issues. I do not keep my faith only in my home, and I am greatly tempted to anger at ...[text shortened]... 's where I make my stand. If it means I'm a wolf, then I'll take that and forgive you for it.
Why don't we leave Jesus Christ and what you believe He wants out of this for a change.
Why don't you analyse the whole situation on the forums instead of defending foulmouth Bbarr and his bullying friends and stop attacking and critisising me for not doing what you believe God wants. Please leave God out of this.
Originally posted by ivanhoeIvanhoe, are you listening to what you are saying? I am stunned, and I'm not trying to be funny.
Why don't we leave Jesus Christ and what you believe He wants out of this for a change.
Why don't you analyse the whole situation on the forums instead of defending foulmouth Bbarr and his bullying friends and stop attacking and critisising me for not doing what you believe God wants. Please leave God out of this.