Originally posted by Nordlys For me, a "perfect father" would help his children grow into independent beings who can make their own choices, and he would respect those choices even if he wouldn't necessarily like them.
Originally posted by frogstomp so is your post : unless you are trying to show a normal father is morally superior to the god of Joshua
The God of Joshua doesn't come into the picture. Nordlys's definition of "perfect father" makes no reference to the God of Joshua; it is not defined in opposition of the notion of the God of Joshua; it does not predicate any notion of God at all.
All I'm trying to show is that, as the definition stands, a "perfect father" (Nordlys's definition) will respect his child's decision even if it includes murder. I am not sure whether this was an unintentional oversight by Nordlys - which is what I'm asking him (or anyone who agrees with the current definition) to clarify.
Does the "perfect father" [b]as proposed by Nordlys accept [ed.] and respect his child's choices when they include murder?[/b]
I did not say (or mean) "accept". And I readily admit that I was simplifying. I don't think it's the father's job to punish the (grown-up) son, but I don't really expect him to respect that choice. I was referring to choices which don't violate other peoples' rights. But I also think it's extremely unlikely that someone who has had a "perfect" upbringing would choose to become a murderer. Being a "perfect father" in my view would include teaching your children basic moral values and being a good example.
The god of Joshua doesn't come into the picture, but that story is another example of why I don't think that god is a "perfect father". Encouraging your children to become murderers is certainly worse than respecting their choice to do so.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung The only things I value are happiness and pleasure, and the removal of suffering.
In contrast, but not in total contrast:
The only things I think are valuable is glorifying God and loving my neighbor. I do not see suffering itself as evil, or pleasure as good. But I would reduce suffering whenever possible as this is God's command.
My tendency is to increase my own pleasure - but I strive to set my pleasure aside to do good for others. (I try to practice what I preach but often fall short.)
Originally posted by Nordlys I did not say (or mean) "accept". And I readily admit that I was simplifying. I don't think it's the father's job to punish the (grown-up) son, but I don't really expect him to respect that choice. I was referring to choices which don't violate other peoples' rights. But I also think it's extremely unlikely that someone who has had a "perfect" upb ...[text shortened]... ging your children to become murderers is certainly worse than respecting their choice to do so.
What does the "perfect father" do if his child wants to murder someone? Does he step in and prevent the crime? Does he punish his child if and only if the crime cannot be prevented? Does he leave prevention and/or punishment to the authorities? What if he is the presiding authority?
What if he taught his children basic moral values and was a good example - despite which (at least) one decided to commit murder?
What if the person being murdered is another child? What if the first child is planning on killing himself (i.e. suicide)?
Originally posted by lucifershammer The God of Joshua doesn't come into the picture. Nordlys's definition of "perfect father" makes no reference to the God of Joshua; it is not defined in opposition of the notion of the God of Joshua; it does not predicate any noti ...[text shortened]... nt definition) to clarify.
You're just going off on a tangent.
murder is murder,,and a daddy that not only respects it ,actually encourages more of it , is far worse than a daddy that just respects his kid's decision.
Originally posted by Coletti In contrast, but not in total contrast:
The only things I think are valuable is glorifying God and loving my neighbor. I do not see suffering itself as evil, or pleasure as good. But I would reduce suffering whenever possible as this is God's command.
My tendency is to increase my own pleasure - but I strive to set my pleasure aside to do good for others. (I try to practice what I preach but often fall short.)
Originally posted by lucifershammer The God of Joshua doesn't come into the picture. Nordlys's definition of "perfect father" makes no reference to the God of Joshua; it is not defined in opposition of the notion of the God of Joshua; it does not predicate any notion of God at all.
All I'm trying to show is that, as the definition stands, a "perfect father" (Nordlys's definit ...[text shortened]... yone who agrees with the current definition) to clarify.
You're just going off on a tangent.
Nonsense; Nordly was responding to Stratjam's assertion that the Christian God is like a "perfect father". You are the one going off on a tangent.
Originally posted by ivanhoe AThousandYoung: "The only things I value are happiness and pleasure, and the removal of suffering."
Is that what they call "Hedonism" ?
It might be. I'm not sure. I don't know the details of how moral perspectives are classified in philosophy. My perspective is definitely rooted in the same concepts that utilitarianism and hedonism are.
What I ment was that God was willing to give his son up so that he can protect the rest of his children. It is kind of like sacrificing in chess to make your position ten times better. God did this for the rest of us so that our sins would be able to be forgiven
He does love everybody. Even those people who don't beleve in him he still loves. He loves everybody that has done wrong. in other words he loves everybody.😀
Originally posted by Sratpam What I ment was that God was willing to give his son up so that he can protect the rest of his children. It is kind of like sacrificing in chess to make your position ten times better. God did this for the rest of us so that our sins would be able to be forgiven
He does love everybody. Even those people who don't beleve in him he still loves. He loves everybody that has done wrong. in other words he loves everybody.😀
Hmmm
God and Satan playing chess, we are the pawns, not bad. Bergmanesque even ...
16 May '05 16:431 edit
Why do people hate God??
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