7 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
The longer the post the more you are desperate to teach people your nonsense doctrines by trying to confuse them. Sorry to tell you that you do not have eternal life NOW. You are just flesh and blood like everyone else. Here is what Paul said...
[b]We shall be changed from corruptible body to an incorruptible one when Christ returns... NOT NOW. WHEN C y get eternal life.
Only Jaywill and his friends have eternal life NOW. Bunch of jokers !
The longer the post the more you are desperate to teach people your nonsense doctrines by trying to confuse them. Sorry to tell you that you do not have eternal life NOW. You are just flesh and blood like everyone else. Here is what Paul said...[/b]
You have been proven wrong. Your only recourse now is the usual Internet tactic of wear the poster down, exhaust his writing time and energy.
Write a little - have him write a lot - wear him out, wear him down.
You've been refuted. Some will see it.
John tells the disciples in his epistle that NOW they have eternal life -
"I have written these things to you that you may know that you HAVE eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:12)
We who believe into the name of the Son of God may know that PRESENTLY, TODAY, I MEAN TODAY, we HAVE eternal life (1 John 5:12).
We shall be changed from corruptible body to an incorruptible one when Christ returns... NOT NOW. WHEN CHRIST RETURNS
Before the transfiguration of the body there is the regeneration of the human spirit.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor 6:17) . That is not "WILL be one spirit at the second coming of Christ". That is PRESENTLY, TODAY, as we are joined to the Lord, we are NOW "one spirit" with the Lord Jesus.
Buddy, try your unbelief on someone else. This is elementary stuff I got clear about decades ago.
The believer can put it this way:
I WAS saved.
I am BEING saved.
I WILL be saved.
There is biblical support for each of these phrases. Right NOW we are talking about the first phrase and its legitimacy - "I WAS saved".
[/b]
1 Cor 15:50-54 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
This says I will be changed. It does not say I will be saved.
And this could come under that catagory not of the regeneration of the spirit but the transfiguration of the body. That is something to look forward to.
This transfiguration of the body is also called " the redemption of the acquired possession. "
"In whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your slavtion, in Him also believing, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is the the PLEDGE of our inheritance unto the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory." (Eph. 1:13)
1.) Though I look forward to one day having my body redeemed in transfiguration. I am already SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
Therefore I can be assured that I am presently saved.
2.) Though I look forward to rapture or resurrection and rapture the possession of my being has already been acquired - "the redemption of the ACQUIRED possession".
3.) Though I look forward to this bodily transfiguration I have TODAY the Holy Spirit within as a PLEDGE. That is a FORETASTE of a fuller taste to come. The Holy Spirit within me today is a Garuantee.
So I may indeed say that I am assured of being saved because of the PLEDGE and the SEAL of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
See above.
See also that full salvation involves all three parts of man's being - spirit and soul and body:
"And the God of peace Himself sanctify you WHOLLY, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:23)
All you are doing is pointing to the coming transfiguration of the body and erroneously using that to DENY the regeneration of the human spirit.
I WAS saved - when my spirit was born again.
I AM BEING saved as my soul is being transformed.
I will be saved when my body is transfigured.
Then I will be sanctified "WHOLLY" and my "spirit and soul and body" will be preserved blameless.
But today, having believed into Jesus I am PRESENTLY saved - My spirit is one spirit with the Lord - "He who is joined to the Lord .... IS .... one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
Today, I may say I am saved because the Spirit as the PLEDGE and as the SEAL bears witness with my spirit that I am one of the children of God:
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. " (Rom. 8:16)
But let us go on to the fuller context of that passage:
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. And if children, heirs also; on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him."
We are garuanteed today to be children of God.
It is conditional that we will be joint heirs with Him if we endure through suffering with Him.
What is conditional and unknown today perhaps, is whether we will endure through suffering to be joint heirs with Him in His millennial kingdom. However, because the Spirit bears witness with the Christian's spirit there is no impediment to him proclaiming that he is today one of the children of God.
Growing to maturity and in the proper time remains to be seen.
But possession God as a Father today as one of His children is certain.
The Holy Spirit ALREADY bears witness with the believer's spirit that he is one of the children of God.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This has not effect on the fact that today we who believe into the name of the Son of God God HAVE eternal life and may KNOW so.
"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him [today] and he in God [today]." (1 John 4:15)
"He who believes into the Son of God has the testimony in himself ...." (1 John 5:10)
Since the Spirit bears witness with the Christian's spirit that he is one of the children of God he has the testimony in himself.
"He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:12)
Today the believer may KNOW that he has the eternal divine life. And John wrote that we would have this assurance and not be vague or unbelieving or hesitant to affirm:
"I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)
You wait and sit around and condemn those who try to follow Christ and do good works.
Where did I say anything about any "waiting" at all.
False accusation.
You are a evil Christian Jaywill .. EVIL .. and you will certainly pay dearly for discouraging people from trying to follow in Christ's footsteps and follow Christ's commandments.
What I condemned is ANY MAN teaching that a believer cannot KNOW today, now, presently, that He has eternal life. That I condemn and will continue to condemn.
Whatever you do is your business. Your doing, whatever it is, doesn't change the normal Christian assurance of having BEEN saved from eternal damnation and having BEEN born again.
How I teach will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ.
I am not concerned with your judging me.
You are like the greedy ME ME ME Christians.
Quite the opposite. I am showing you that it is not me rather it is HIM that is our assurance.
It is CHRIST, CHRIST, CHRIST who is our certainty. It is our identification with Christ that saves us in Christ.
Christ becomes our wisdom, righteousness, and sanctification -
"But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
That as it is written, "He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord" " (1 Cor. 1:30,31)
My boast is not in me, me, me. On the contrary. I boast in Christ into Whom God has placed me. Christ has been made to the Christians wisdom from God: both "righteousness and sanctification and redemption".
I am just pointing out what CHRIST has become to any man who asks God to put Christ into him and he in Christ.
I want I want I want I want I want . GIMME GIMME ! Thats all your type of Christians do. Its all about SELF. Christ saved ME ME ME. You are disgusting !!
Give us more of Christ.
"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption."
Sure. Give us more of Christ. For as we have received Him so also we should continue to walk in Him.
Here is what Paul said ..
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
That pertains to REWARD not to the GIFT of eternal life.
You are STILL IGNORANT and cannot realize the difference between the GIFT and the RECOMPENSE OF REWARD.
Here Paul is not talking about finally being sure of his justification unto eternal life. Here Paul is speaking at the end of a long life of serving Christ that a crown of righteousness will be his REWARD for righteous living.
You are ignorant of the difference.
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
The longer the post the more you are desperate to teach people your nonsense doctrines by trying to confuse them. Sorry to tell you that you do not have eternal life NOW. You are just flesh and blood like everyone else. Here is what Paul said...
[b]We shall be changed from corruptible body to an incorruptible one when Christ returns... NOT NOW. WHEN C y get eternal life.
Only Jaywill and his friends have eternal life NOW. Bunch of jokers !
Here is what Paul said ..[/b]
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
The parables in Matthew indicate that the servants of the Lord receive varied recompense of reward.
And Paul's Corinthian letters details a Christian brother possibly not rewarded but saved yet so as through fire:
"If anyone's work which he has built upon [the foundation] remains, he will receive a reward;
If anyone's work is consumed, he wholl suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)
In 2 Timothy 4:8 Paul is only saying that he finally is assured of a REWARD.
Paul is saying "I will receive a crown of righteousness for a reward".
Paul is not saying he is finally assured that he will be saved.
He is saying at least he is assured he will be rewarded with a recompense IN ADDITION to being saved.
I said eternal salvation is not the ONLY subject in the Bible.
Paul is telling his young co-worker that when the Lord returns he, Paul, will receive a recompense for his subjective righteous living. And not only he can be rewarded. But ALL who love the Lord's appearing.
Do all Christians love the Lord's appearing ? That may be remain to be seen. But that has no effect on him being positionally justified as the GIFT of eternal redemption.
Paul is saying he will not be saved yet so as through fire.
Paul is saying he will not suffer LOSS but will receive a REWARD.
All who like Paul, live subjectively righteous by abiding in Christ and serving Christ will be receive a reward.
There is absolutely no contradiction here between Paul's teaching in First Corinthians and his final farewell word to Timothy knowing that he is about to be martyred.
Paul himself said HE HAS TO WAIT FOR THE DAY CHRIST RETURNS. Not only him BUT EVERYONE.
Christ said :
It says those who love His appearing.
Sure I may be a saved Christian today but living my old life. Would I love the Lord's appearing if He were to SUDDENLY appear while I am in such a backslidden and unconfessed condition ?
That may remain to be seen. But the Lord is faithful to HIMSELF. He did not peak into the ark of Noah to see how Noah and his children were behaving. As long as they were in the ark they were saved.
And in Christ we are assured of eternal salvation. We may be saved though as through fire and suffer loss of reward for His coming millennial kingdom.
Before Paul said that he kept stretching foward to what was before in Philippians. He said in the middle of his ministry that he forget the things which were behind and kept on stretching forward for the high calling of God. He said in Philippians he did not count himself to have obtained maturity.
Now at the END of his ministry in Second Timothy Paul changes his tone. He is now about to die. He has kept the faith and is assured of a REWARD. He will not be saved barely as through fire but richly rewarded in the kingdom for his righteous living.
His attitude is great. And I want to have a similar attitude. But you go too far to understand this passage to mean one cannot be assured that he is eternally redeemed or born again.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Here again is a passage about REWARD.
Some believers will be rewarded.
Some will suffer loss.
Jesus said the twelve disciples would be rewarded. That is a promise to those who have followed Him.
In the same book Jesus affirms that His death is for the forgiveness of the sins of many:
"For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:28)
If we identify with Christ by recieving Him, by believing into Him, we receive the forgiveness of sins. He did not say that this shedding of His blood was so that all may reign with Him on twelve thrones.
So we today can boast that we HAVE received the forgiveness of sins and are eternally reconciled to God.
If you don't want to have a solid foundation for your Christian life, that is your loss. But I will teach the new believers that they may KNOW that they have eternal life and that the power of the blood of Jesus cleanses them from all sins.
Now we may go on to grow, to serve Him by abiding in Him and learning to live a subjective righteous living in Him.
The Disciples also have to wait for his return before they get eternal life.
Only Jaywill and his friends have eternal life NOW. Bunch of jokers !
These "jokers" include the Apostle John and his audience in First John which has encouraged probably a million people through the centries -
"And we KNOW that the Son of God has come and has GIVEN us an understanding hat we might KNOW Him who is true; and we are [Right Now, Presently, Today] in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.
THIS ... is the true God and eternal life." (1 John 5:20)
We believers in Jesus can say that we KNOW that we are in Him Who is true. And we can today KNOW that THIS is the true God and eternal life.
1 edit
Yes Folks
Join the Jaywill OSAS Church
Just proclaim your faith in Christ and VOOM ..
ETERNAL LIFE.
HOLY SPIRIT GIFTS
IMMORTALITY.
No work required.
Just contribute generously to the Church.
Every Sunday we meet and sing, clap, roll on the floor,
speak in tongues.
Live your life as usual.
Drink and party.
Womanize
Gamble
Do whatever you please.
No need to follow Christ difficult commandments
Forget about that 'love thy neighbour' nonsense.
YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR ETERNAL LIFE.
GOD IS POWERLESS TO THROW YOU IN HELL
OR PUNISH YOU !!
You can ignore the poor and needy.
Treat your parents like garbage.
Make lots of money and live like a king
Drive the latest cars etc
Eat and Drink and be Merry.
Get Eternal Life NOW ! ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
THE SINGLE MOST DANGEROUS DELUSION IN ALL OF CHRISTIANITY
Originally posted by Rajk999[/b]This is a vicious slander.
[b]Yes Folks
Join the Jaywill OSAS Church
Just proclaim your faith in Christ and VOOM ..
ETERNAL LIFE.
HOLY SPIRIT GIFTS
IMMORTALITY.
No work required.
Just contribute generously to the Church.
Every Sunday we meet and sing, clap, roll on the floor,
D ALWAYS SAVED
THE SINGLE MOST DANGEROUS DELUSION IN ALL OF CHRISTIANITY
"What then shall we say?" says the Apostle Paul after laying out the truth of justification by faith. "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? Absolutely not! We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it ?
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been batized into His death " (Romans 6:1-3)
And so on, and so on, and so on. Paul then turns in his talk to walking daily in Christ.
Rajk999, you may think you are rather clever. But the arguments against justification by faith you hurl at me were hurled at Paul by the Judiazers in the early days of the Christian church.
These libels you throw are worn old ones dusted off and tried again, Paul already spoke to these kinds of slanders -
"What then shall we say ? Shall we CONTINUE in sin that grace may abound ? "
Rajk999 slanderously accuses me of teaching Christians to CONTINUE to live in sin that grace may abound. Nothing new in this accusation.
"For you are called to freedom, brothers, only do not turn this freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." (Galatians 5:13)
Rajk999 is slanderously accusing me of teaching Christians to use their freedom in Christ as an opportunity for the sinful flesh.
Rajk999 has OLD slanders. Rajk999 has OLD libels that they hurled at Paul. He now dusts them off and hurls them at me.
"And why not say (as we are slanderously charged and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil that good may come ? whose judgment is just." (Romans 3:8)
Rajk999 also slanderously accuses me of teaching that we Christians should do evil that good may come.
http://www.lordsrecovery.org/
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillYou are failing to see how foolish it is for you to claim, that there are some people who can sin and escape the consequences of sin.
This is a vicious slander.
[b]"What then shall we say?" says the Apostle Paul after laying out the truth of justification by faith. "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? Absolutely not! We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it ?
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been b ns should do evil that good may come.
[b] http://www.lordsrecovery.org/ [/b][/b]
Rom 2:11-12 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999When some posters are ready to have a serious conversation about OTHER aspects of the New Testament, ie. "the judgment of Christ" for saved Christians, then maybe I'll discuss that.
You are failing to see how foolish it is for you to claim, that there are some people who can sin and escape the consequences of sin.
Rom 2:11-12 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
I think I can defend Christian responsibility better than you.
I do not teach "cheap grace" at all.
3 edits
riginally posted by jay
hat then shall we sayays the Apostle Paul after laying out the truth of justification by faithS. [hall we continue to sin that grace may abound? Absolutely not! We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it ?
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been b ns should do evil that good may come.
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillYou are most welcome .. 😀
Thanks posters for the opinions about the passage [b]"Jesus wept".
I am through with this thread and it diversions into other topics now.[/b]
Good luck with the 'All-you-can-Sin' Religion Jaywill 😀
I used to think that you were serious about salvation but if you can preach to people that they can sin without consequences then something is sadly wrong with your beliefs.
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Those are slanderous lies which you could not back up if someone asked you to QUOTE me to prove that as my teaching.
You are most welcome .. 😀
Good luck with the 'All-you-can-Sin' Religion Jaywill 😀
I used to think that you were serious about salvation but if you can preach to people that they can sin without consequences then something is sadly wrong with your beliefs.
Watch this. Quote me that I encouraged an "All-you-can-Sin" Religion.
Your next post should include three or so definite QUOTATIONS from my posts demonstrating your charge.
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillNotice Rajk999's rank hypocrisy.
Those are slanderous lies which you could not back up if someone asked you to QUOTE me to prove [b]that as my teaching.
Watch this. Quote me that I encouraged an "All-you-can-Sin" Religion.
Your next post should include three or so definite QUOTATIONS from my posts demonstrating your charge.[/b]
While accusing me of using Christ's Gospel of grace as a license to sin, Rajk999 hypocritically uses his "salvation - only God will know" as an license to LIE, MOCK, and SLANDER me with libelous charges he cannot substantiate.
So much for good works - self justification !
So much for "More Righteous Then Thou" service.
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillIn the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
Those are slanderous lies which you could not back up if someone asked you to QUOTE me to prove [b]that as my teaching.
Watch this. Quote me that I encouraged an "All-you-can-Sin" Religion.
Your next post should include three or so definite QUOTATIONS from my posts demonstrating your charge.[/b]
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do, then you are encouraging and releasing the most depraved desires in man.
Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
You even went so far as to say that EVEN GOD CANNOT take away anyone's salvation.
So here is the result of your two teachings ..
OSAS + Justification by Faith = Lazy, Selfish, Sinful Christians
Your problem is that you belong to a Christian sect which fail to understand what GRACE really means.
4 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
In the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter wha roblem is that you belong to a Christian sect which fail to understand what GRACE really means.
In the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
Have you not read that unless we become like little children we would not enter into the kingdom of God?
The ABUSE of any number of biblical statements could lead to errors. James apparently experienced some perverting of "justification by faith."
It would be a total mistake to assume that Paul did not ALSO counter guard against such abuses. And in my opinion, I think Paul did so better.
You can make your own mind up why God allowed Paul to write 13 books of the New Testament and James to write 1.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do, then you are encouraging and releasing the most depraved desires in man.
I have not said much about it until now. NOW I will say something about this.
The remedy to loose Christians abusing what we sometimes call "cheap grace" is to teach them about the judgment seat of Christ - reward and discipline.
It is totally erroneous to assume that the FATHER after having eternally justified a believer has His hands tied and can no longer discipline, correct, chastize, and even PUNISH a wayward son for not growing up. And that even AFTER the second coming of Christ.
Yes, I did write the word "PUNISH".
YOU assume that because I stand firmly for "justification by faith" therefore I think God is some kind of dummy with His hands tied and cannot perfect with correction some of His wayward sons.
You see. I read the Bible. Sorry. And I think I can demonstrate the above far better than you can.
Having said that. I would point out that you MUST give a believer a strong foundation in justification in order allow them to mature and grow.
And now, calm yourself for a minute and I will tell you why -
============================================
When a person becomes a believer in Jesus Christ, one of the FIRST tactics Satan will use against him is to condemn his conscience:
"Oh, I see. You think that YOU can be a Christian ? You of all people. You just sinned again. You cannot be a disciple of Jesus. That is for strong people. You are weak and sinful. Better not say you're saved."
This kind of accusation is what the believer will experience on day #2 after the joy of day #1. The believer has to learn to use the blood of Jesus to shut the mouth of the accuser.
When the accusation is without ground, he needs to believe in the blood of Christ.
When the accusation is legitimate and has some basis, maybe complete basis, he also needs to use the power of the blood of Jesus. He cannot GROW if he does not learn to get out from under Satan's accusation.
Now doesn't John agree ? -
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship wth one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
They overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb. They overcomers overcome the nagging accusation of the Devil because of standing upon the power of the blood of Christ -
"Now is come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brothers has been cast down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb ... and because the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death." (Rev. 12:10)
Here the main point I make is that no Christian ever graduates from the need to proclaim to the enemy that he has been washed in the blood of Jesus. Mistakes will be made. Failures will come. The new believer will falter sometimes. The new believer will fall to temptation.
When he or she does the accusation of the Devil comes that such a one cannot be a follower of Jesus. This accusation is like the continual dripping of a complaining old gossipy woman. The conscience must be restored to peace.
We must confess our sins right away when we Christians fall. Then we must believe that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins - big sins, little sins, forgivable sins, unforgivable sins, public sins, privite sins, sins of commission, sins of ommission, visible sins, invisiable sins -
"THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST GOD's SON CLEANSES US FROM *** All *** SIN. "
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
A FIRM foundation in the security of Justification is vital to developing and growing as a disciple of Jesus.
I stop here for this post.
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
In the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter wha roblem is that you belong to a Christian sect which fail to understand what GRACE really means.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do, then you are encouraging and releasing the most depraved desires in man.
So if this is the case maybe we should all become Atheists. That way there is no danger of people abusing the fact that there is a God of love and forgiveness and redemption at ALL. So that there will be no religious hypocrisy then why should we not join the Atheists like Hitchens, Dawkins, and other atheists.
"No God = no religious license to do evil period". All your athiests would agree with that.
The remedy to looseness and the abuse of "cheap grace" is not to deny the efficacy of Christ's redemption. There is still a lot of latittude the wise Father has - a wide range of options at the hands of the all wise Father, to deal with sons of all types.
And that scope of discipline in the New Testament ranges from 1,000 years of being "hurt by the second death" to simply losing a reward.
YOU assume that I believe that the Father is stuck and cannot fittingly discipline His varied children. I know that no one is getting away with anything.
Why don't you read the New Testament rightly? I am not saying anything that is not seen there. The age of eternity does not start immediately after the second coming of Christ. The commencing from the second coming of Christ is the 1,000 years millennial kingdom.
In that time Christ still has time to perfect His servants. Read the parables of the servants in Matthew. That is the ones which refer to His rewarding or punishing them after He returns.
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999
In the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter wha roblem is that you belong to a Christian sect which fail to understand what GRACE really means.
In the thread Justification by Faith started by Robbie, he explains how the doctrine you preach leads to a license to sin. I find it hard to believe you need that explained to you. Its almost you have the mind of a 5 yr old when it comes to that.
If you tell people that once they are born again they are saved and cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do, then you are encouraging and releasing the most depraved desires in man.
Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
You even went so far as to say that EVEN GOD CANNOT take away anyone's salvation.
So here is the result of your two teachings ..
OSAS + Justification by Faith = Lazy, Selfish, Sinful Christians
Your problem is that you belong to a Christian sect which fail to understand what GRACE really means.
Rajk999, it did not escape my notice that you NEVER provided QUOTATIONS to back up your accusation of my encouraging or teaching license to sin because of grace.
Why don't you admit that you have no QUOTATIONS to demonstrate that ?