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-Removed-Do you acknowledge that only Christ knows who is and who is not saved? No man knows that. In Matt 19 Christ had 12 disciples one of which was Judas. All disciples were given holy spirit gifts. Judas lost his salvation. That alone proves that your claim that nothing can change 'that' is wrong. Born again Christians are still human and can still lose their salvation if they do evil deeds.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Notice Christ said, those who followed him. It is a journey through life to follow Christ. Christ never said you are saved NOW. You will be saved IF you follow him.
Are you claiming that all born again Christians, follow Christ to the end?
Originally posted by MelanerpesIn the parable of the Good Samaritan, the evil one was the Samaritan and the 'saved' ones were the Priest and the Levite.
..if the Christian message is essentially that you need to do a lot of good works to impress God on judgment day - then where's the "good news"? God is going to be very demanding because he's God. The standard is going to be perfection - are any us going to measure up?
...
I think Im beginning to understand you modern Christians.
-Removed-How many time do I have to say that ..
ONLY CHRIST KNOWS WHO IS SAVED.
Not you, not me, not Jaywill .. NOBODY.
Christ decides who is saved. So if there are churches that go around telling people that they are saved then that church is in error.
And YES many christians do fall by the wayside and are not really 'born again' like they claimed with their mouth.
A follower of Christ has to FOLLOW and only Christ knows who is following him.
-Removed-Well, I did tell you and ask you as well if you believe that only Christ knows. And you kept asking me ... Anyway .. my apologies for shouting.
I asked about Judas one of the 12. He was 'born again' and was baptised and certainly did receive Holy Spirit gifts. Do you think he will get eternal life? That's a rhetorical question.
We have security and assurance IF we do certain things which the Bible outlines. Its certainly is not that we have assurance and we cannot lose our salvation and then we go and do as we please. Not all Christians who claim to be born again follow Christ.
It is essential to follow Christ. Its a journey that lasts a lifetime.
-Removed-But you are judging. You are saying that a born-again Christian CANNOT lose his salvation. Thats making a judgment.
Here is how I rather phrase it so that I dont violate anything thing in the Bible.
I [me personally] am baptized into Christ and I have vowed to follow Christ and do to the best of my ability what Christ commanded. I have the assurance that once I follow Christ I will be saved. And I also know that if I do not follow Christ my salvation is in danger .. [me personally]
I am certainly not going to put my neck out and claim that ALL born-again Christians will be saved. Thats nonsense.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
I truly find it amazing that you are reading and saying exactly what Im saying in essence and still concluding that YOU ARE SAVED NOW. You have the assurance of salvation YES. But that comes with some IFs which you admit.
IF :
IF you believe in Christ.
IF you have faith
IF you continue with good works
IF ...
ONLY CHRIST knows who qualifies.
O th is simple. Believe in Christ and do good works and you SHALL BE SAVED WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.
I truly find it amazing that you are reading and saying exactly what Im saying in essence and still concluding that YOU ARE SAVED NOW.
I have the GIFT of eternal life now. I know thousands personally who have the GIFT of eternal life now.
We do not follow your false gospel of a self effort. We follow the Gospel of identication with Christ. His destiny is our destiny as the destiny of the ark of Noah was that destiny of the people within the ark the of Noah.
You have the assurance of salvation YES. But that comes with some IFs which you admit.
You're confused. There is nothing I can learn from you. I do not intend to waste a lot of time with you.
ONLY CHRIST knows who qualifies.
ONLY CHRIST knows.
Christ knows all IN HIM will be saved forever. That is why He died and rose.
Have you told anyone that they are saved? YES? Then you have lied to that person. The correct thing to say is you have the assurance that YOU WILL ONE DAY get salvation when Christ returns. NOBODY has salvation now. We all wait for that day when we SHALL BE SAVED.
Not at all in every sense as has been and will be demonstrated again.
Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Only demonstrates that "saved" takes on more than one connatation in the NT. Like Paul says a woman is "saved" through childbearing.
Obviously Paul was not teaching eternal salvation on to women who raise kids. Nice try. On second thought, it really wasn't oo good of a try.
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Only reveals that the word "saved" can have different connatations in the NT.
" ... the woman [Eve], having been quite deceived, jas fallen into transgression. But she will be saved through her childbearing ..." (1 Tim. 2:15)
The word "saved" can apply to different catagories of rescue.
Mar_13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
No need to repeat.
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This passage could require more discussion which I will not waste on you. I am letting you go your own way.
Anyone else reading though may be assured that the NT does also use "saved" in the PAST TENSE in a way of assurance of what HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE -
Ie. "For by grace you have been SAVED through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." (EPH. 2:8)
Paul tells the Ephesians Christians as to their PAST - they "HAVE ... BEEN ... SAVED."
Rajk999 rejects that this SAVED is "the GiFT of God".
Rajk999 rejects that this SAVED is "by grace through faith".
Rajk999 wants to re-establish any being SAVED to works that he can boast in.
Paul here says "SAVED [past tense] ... not of works that no one should boast."
Rajk999 heresy is concerned with establishing a "SAVE" only in the future that will have his works to boast in.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Some of us have entered into Christ the door. So we know that we shall be saved.
Paul tells the Christians "You have been saved ..." in Ephesians 2:8.
The point here is NOT that SAVED as to eternal perdition is the only subject in the whole Bible.
After a believer enters into Christ the door this morning, he still needs bad habits to be "saved" from. He still may need a salvation from his temper or his lust or his anxiety. The point here is not that SAVED does not carry other connatations in the Bible.
The point of this argument is that the New Testament certainly DOES establish a confidence that one can be assured he is SAVED forever from eternal damanation, from eternal judgment, from hell, from never being reconciled to God, and from sharing Satan's destiny.
"For by grace you have been SAVED through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God." (Eph. 2:8)
As to the PAST of these Christians, they " HAVE BEEN SAVED. " And today believers may have the same assurance.
Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
To call on the Lord in truth is to contact the Lord and be identified with the Lord. Whoever is identified with the Lord Jesus has the Lord Jesus as his substitute. Jesus is his Redeemer. He puts no trust in self effort for his eternal salvation. He receives the GIFT of eternal life.
No passage on calling on the Lord insists that one should only call on Him ONCE in their whole life. Just because I called "Lord Jesus, I believe in You, Lord Jesus save me. Lord Jesus" and received the GIFT of eternal redemption does not mean I cannot call on Jesus for other things.
IE. Yesterday I received Christ for eternal salvation. Today I have a fight with my wife and I call "Lord Jesus. O Lord Jessus. Lord save me from my temper Lord Jesus."
That is perfectly acceptable and I advize that you CONTINUE to call on the name of the Lord Jesus for other savings for you whole life. And Paul implies strongly the same -
" As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him." (Col. 2:6)
Notice - as to the PAST, you Chrisitians, says Paul, " have RECEIVED the Christ " . As to the future they should continue to WALK IN HIM.
Do not let Rajk999 exploit and twist passages to teach that a man cannot know that he has been SAVED from eternal perdition.
Act_11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
This has no effect on what I have shared above. Rajk999 is reactionary against a teaching of assurance of salvation.
The Apostle told us believers in Christ - "For by grace you have BEEN SAVED through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works that no one should boast." (Eph. 2:8,9)
Again, the point I make is NOT that there are no other subjects in the Bible.
And "salvation" and "saved" carry other connatations in the New Testament.
Act_15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
This verse doesn't refute Ephesians 2:8,9 or contradict it.
One passage which is very good to show a saving eternally now in reconciliation and an ongoing salvation in the realm of practical daily contact with Christ as life in Romans 5:10.
Romans 5:10 - "For if we , being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled."
1.) As to the past there were "enemies".
They are no longer "enemies" of God.
2.) As to the past they have BEEN "reconciled" through the death of Christ. Reconciliation for eternity has taken place.
3.) Having BEEN reconciled and having become NO LONGER "enemies", they will experience something "much more" . That is a practical being "saved" in the coming days in the realm of His indwelling life.
This is chapter 5. The next chapters through e certainly, are about the daily experience of walking and abiding in the Spirit of Christ. They have BEEN reconciled. They will never be condemned to eternal perdition. They WILL be saved "much more" in the realm and sphere of His indwelling life.
This demonstrates that "SAVED" carries different connatations. And it shows that those "reconciled to God through the death of His Son" are still in need of a salvation of transformation and sancification in the realm of His life.
Don't let Rajk999 exploit and twist these passages to send Christians back to the law of Moses for justication through works. For by works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This agrees with my point also. As to the past they have been "JUSTIFIED by HIS BLOOD" .
If you do not think being "JUSTIFIED" is being SAVED that is pretty stupid. One who has BEEN "JUSTIFIED" is already saved from appearing before God UNJUSTIFIED and CONDEMNED.
So this passage of Romans 5:9 refutes Rajk999's teaching to return to Judaistic law keeping for justification.
" ... we will be saved through Him from the wrath".
So it is legitimate to proclaim in faith - "I AM SAVED". And once again the Apostle tells the Christians exactly that -
"For by grace you have BEEN SAVED ..."
Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
We should expereince "much more" of the "much more". In other words, from chapter 5 and certainly through chapter 8 Paul begins to teach of the DAILY salvation from the fallen nature by walking in the Spirit.
Of course there are many things of mood, habit, inclination, temptation, wrong doing, custom from which the Christians need to be saved. Much more we shall be saved in the realm of His indwelling life to those RECONCILED to God forever through the death of His Son.
That is enough for this post. Assurance of eternal salvation is still established.
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Originally posted by jaywillThe longer the post the more you are desperate to teach people your nonsense doctrines by trying to confuse them. Sorry to tell you that you do not have eternal life NOW. You are just flesh and blood like everyone else. Here is what Paul said...
I truly find it amazing that you are reading and saying exactly what Im saying in essence and still concluding that YOU ARE SAVED NOW.
I have the GIFT of eternal life now. I know thousands personally who have the GIFT of eternal life now.
We do not follow your false gospel of a self effort. We follow the Gospel of identication ished.
We shall be changed from corruptible body to an incorruptible one when Christ returns... NOT NOW. WHEN CHRIST RETURNS
1 Cor 15:50-54 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
What you do have, is A HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE ... WHEN CHRIST RETURNS. Just the same like all other Christians. We wait in hope. Unfortunately you and your type WAIT IN ARROGANCE, NOT IN HUMILITY. YOU ARROGANTLY BOAST THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE AND YOU DONT NEED TO DO ANY GOOD WORKS.... WHAT UTTER NONSENSE! UTTER GARBAGE. TOTALLY CONTRARY TO CHRIST'S DOCTRINE.
You wait and sit around and condemn those who try to follow Christ and do good works. You are a evil Christian Jaywill .. EVIL .. and you will certainly pay dearly for discouraging people from trying to follow in Christ's footsteps and follow Christ's commandments. You are like the greedy ME ME ME Christians. I want I want I want I want I want . GIMME GIMME ! Thats all your type of Christians do. Its all about SELF. Christ saved ME ME ME. You are disgusting !!
Here is what Paul said ..
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Paul himself said HE HAS TO WAIT FOR THE DAY CHRIST RETURNS. Not only him BUT EVERYONE.
Christ said :
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The Disciples also have to wait for his return before they get eternal life.
Only Jaywill and his friends have eternal life NOW. Bunch of jokers !