Why Should I be a Christian?

Originally posted by chaney3
Are you implying that your version of Jesus is the correct one?
And that the other Christian 'sheep' are wrong?
Because face it, not all Christians believe in the same Jesus, and cannot even explain whether He is God or not.

I have no idea what you mean by my version of Jesus is correct! I'm telling you that Jesus
Himself has said that His sheep knows His voice and another they will not follow. I'm also
telling you that God the Father draws *us* to Jesus, so this is not "KellyJay's" version of
Jesus, it is God not us that matters! If you reject God's call on your life when He is calling
you no other will do, no other than Jesus Himself is the Way, Truth, and Life if you miss
Him or follow another that will be between you and God not you and me. The one place
you will find Him is when you get real with Him in prayer, and not play games. There
KellyJay isn't required, or anyone else, just you and Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have no idea what you mean by my version of Jesus is correct! I'm telling you that Jesus
Himself has said that His sheep knows His voice and another they will not follow. I'm also
telling you that God the Father draws *us* to Jesus, so this is not "KellyJay's" version of
Jesus, it is God not us that matters! If you reject God's call on your life when H ...[text shortened]... , and not play games. There
KellyJay isn't required, or anyone else, just you and Jesus Christ.

Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God?
Or do you believe Jesus is God?
This simple question will get answered in a hundred different ways, by Christians, all claiming to believe in the 'same' Jesus, which is not accurate.

Originally posted by chaney3
Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God?
Or do you believe Jesus is God?
This simple question will get answered in a hundred different ways, by Christians, all claiming to believe in the 'same' Jesus, which is not accurate.

Why do you give a rats a$$ what I believe if you know that Jesus is the Way, the Truth,
and the Life no one comes to the Father but through Him? I'm not in that equation that is
between you and God not you, me and God. You are dancing around and around and it
looks like your attempting to keep yourself in a state of confusion by avoiding the only
One that can answer all of your questions!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Why do you give a rats a$$ what I believe if you know that Jesus is the Way, the Truth,
and the Life no one comes to the Father but through Him? I'm not in that equation that is
between you and God not you, me and God. You are dancing around and around and it
looks like your attempting to keep yourself in a state of confusion by avoiding the only
One that can answer all of your questions!

You did not answer the simple question, noted.

If you did answer, it's likely there would be a line of fellow Christians at the ready to tell you how wrong you are.

It is important FOR ME to know who Jesus really is. Your posts seem to imply that either Jesus or God speaks to a person's heart with this info?

If so, why are 'they' giving everyone conflicting information?

Originally posted by chaney3
You did not answer the simple question, noted.

If you did answer, it's likely there would be a line of fellow Christians at the ready to tell you how wrong you are.

It is important FOR ME to know who Jesus really is. Your posts seem to imply that either Jesus or God speaks to a person's heart with this info?

If so, why are 'they' giving everyone conflicting information?

I'm doing you a favor by not answering the question by pointing you to the only one that
can answer it. It isn't a matter of accepting what I think Jesus is like, it isn't matter of
agreeing with me on doctrinal points if you are missing out on Jesus Christ Himself and
only Jesus Christ Himself and reveal Himself to you, I cannot do that! Even if I were to
tell you the God's honest truth on who Jesus is, you are hung up in that there are others
who have different opinions, so mine would be just one in a loud throng of those telling
you about Jesus.

You really want to know about Jesus, ask Jesus to show you, so that you know His voice
and stop following others that have nothing to do with God but act as if they do.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm doing you a favor by not answering the question by pointing you to the only one that
can answer it. It isn't a matter of accepting what I think Jesus is like, it isn't matter of
agreeing with me on doctrinal points if you are missing out on Jesus Christ Himself and
only Jesus Christ Himself and reveal Himself to you, I cannot do that! Even if I were ...[text shortened]... now His voice
and stop following others that have nothing to do with God but act as if they do.

What I am asking you is: why is Jesus NOT revealing Himself in the same way to ALL Christians??

Is He revealing Himself to some as God, and then as son of God to others? Trinity Jesus to some, but human only Jesus to others?

It does not make sense that the core of Christianity should be divided by the lack of an agreement on who He is.

On this forum it has been asked if a non Trinity believer can go to heaven. So it seems that some care about the truth.

Originally posted by chaney3
What I am asking you is: why is Jesus NOT revealing Himself in the same way to ALL Christians??

Is He revealing Himself to some as God, and then as son of God to others? Trinity Jesus to some, but human only Jesus to others?

It does not make sense that the core of Christianity should be divided by the lack of an agreement on who He is.

On this for ...[text shortened]... en asked if a non Trinity believer can go to heaven. So it seems that some care about the truth.

Jesus does reveal Himself to Christians, our trouble is "Christian" to us is anyone who
claims they are, that does not follow that they belong to Jesus Christ. So this is why I am
telling you, it isn't between you and me, its between you and Jesus Christ. Jesus' knows
His own, and His own knows Jesus, and since He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life why
go to another?

We do share who He is because some don't know anything about Him or they are so
filled with so many things that in the long run do not matter. With you I'm prayerfully
answering you as I feel led, but even there anyone else can say that! What I cannot
do or anyone else is have you get some place where you go to God, and don't leave
until both you and Him are happy with the other!

We live in a sinful world, it is filled with the self-righteous, the self-important, the
self-haters, haters of God, haters of those that don't agree with them, and on and on,
it is a dark place. Jesus however is our Light in the darkness, why go to Kelly when you
can go to Jesus? We live in a world where everyone is saying follow me no matter where
they are going, why go to Kelly to show you the way when Jesus said, I am the Way?
We live in fallen world where even if we get everything we want we can walk away empty
because in things or power here there is no life, so why go to Kelly when Jesus said
that He is the Life?

It isn't about me or anyone else here no matter how important they think they are it is all
about Jesus and you! I promise you, His love for you is so great He has the scars to prove
it!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Jesus does reveal Himself to Christians, our trouble is "Christian" to us is anyone who
claims they are, that does not follow that they belong to Jesus Christ. So this is why I am
telling you, it isn't between you and me, its between you and Jesus Christ. Jesus' knows
His own, and His own knows Jesus, and since He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life why ...[text shortened]...
about Jesus and you! I promise you, His love for you is so great He has the scars to prove
it!

I appreciate your thoughtful replies KellyJay, but you are not explaining why Jesus is revealing Himself differently to Christians.

Example: in a different thread, sonship has basically told a JW that his belief is wrong because of a non Trinity view of Jesus. If this is hypothetically correct, then why doesn't every Christian believe in theTrinity? It seems rather important, no?

Originally posted by chaney3

What I am asking you is: why is Jesus NOT revealing Himself in the same way to ALL Christians??

Divisions among Christians is not a statement on the unreality of Christ. But it is a statement on the immaturity of many believers.

"Until we all arrive" as Paul spoke means that there is a process going on. And even he himself was in this process awaiting for us all to arrive at the oneness of the faith and the full knowledge of a Person, a living Person - the Son of God.

We may not all arrive at the same time. But we all, believers in Christ will arrive at this practical oneness.

Is He revealing Himself to some as God, and then as son of God to others? Trinity Jesus to some, but human only Jesus to others?

All the believers are in the process of all arriving at a practical oneness.

"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

Notice that this is the full knowledge of a Person. It is a living Person Who is that unity. I am one with fellow Christians who may have different interpretations of certain doctrinal matters.

We both can LIVE Christ as a Person indwelling. And we all are in the process of arriving at the complete knowledge of this living Person - a divine life.

Going on in Paul's prediction of arriving at the oneness, he shows that immaturity in the divine life causes us to be tossed to and fro as spiritual children.

" That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error ..."

You see? More GROWTH in spiritual life leads to more oneness. The winds of teaching here can mean even correct teaching. But it is correct teaching which distracts from holding on to Christ as a living Person. So Paul follows on to talk about not being distracted from HOLDING to the living Head, the Person of Jesus in love for one another in Christ's mystical Body.

"But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ.

Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation oin the measure of each one part, causes the grwoth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (See Eph. 4:13-16)

It does not make sense that the core of Christianity should be divided by the lack of an agreement on who He is.

On this forum it has been asked if a non Trinity believer can go to heaven. So it seems that some care about the truth.

But you are right that divisions in the church is a scandal. But we believe the gates of Hades will not prevail against the builded church, His church. City by city we may come together to be builded up in love, holding to the living Head - "until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith ..." .

The scandal of divisions does not have to impede this growth into the visible practical oneness in at least a remnant in this age.

Also, God has a way of allowing the circumstances to give the incentive for Christians around the world to long more to be one. It is called "the great tribulation".

Originally posted by chaney3
I appreciate your thoughtful replies KellyJay, but you are not explaining why Jesus is revealing Himself differently to Christians.

Example: in a different thread, sonship has basically told a JW that his belief is wrong because of a non Trinity view of Jesus. If this is hypothetically correct, then why doesn't every Christian believe in theTrinity? It seems rather important, no?

I would line that up with the "who cares" debate topics. Bottom line if you love God with
all of your heart, and everyone else as yourself, you've been given the Spirit of God, do
you think God is going to say....You were confused over this point, to Hell with you?

There are a lot of topics that matter as much to me as that one does, I know people who
believe this and it blows me out of my mind....if you accept Christ into your heart, you
have loved God with all of your heart and everyone else, the Spirit of God resided in you,
BUT when you were baptized they said one of the following (in the name of Jesus) or
they said (in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) depending on who you
are talking to some think you will go to Hell if you were baptized in the wrong way, and
I just want to scream. Really God is going to look at someone's life and say well, you
did everything I asked of you, but OH NO way back when they said this not that, to Hell
with you?

I get that with some there are important points of doctrine, and believe me I do believe that
doctrine is important, but put first things first! Loving God and each other is either at the
top of the list or they are not, and if they are the rest will in due time fall into place.

PLEASE don't think I'm any more than any other here either....I have brain-farts, I screw
up, I sin and have to ask God for forgiveness, I'm asking God always to give me eyes that
see and ears that hear, because I know I can be so self-centered I miss what is right in
front of me! I need Jesus, without Him I can do nothing!

The very best part, I mean the very best part of life is sharing it with God in Christ! My wife
and I have had good times and some very painful ones, He has never left us or forsaken
us. He didn't protect us from bad times, but He sure did go through them with us helping
us along the way so those bad times didn't destroy us.

Originally posted by chaney3
I appreciate your thoughtful replies KellyJay, but you are not explaining why Jesus is revealing Himself differently to Christians.

Example: in a different thread, sonship has basically told a JW that his belief is wrong because of a non Trinity view of Jesus. If this is hypothetically correct, then why doesn't every Christian believe in theTrinity? It seems rather important, no?

Example: in a different thread, sonship has basically told a JW that his belief is wrong because of a non Trinity view of Jesus. If this is hypothetically correct, then why doesn't every Christian believe in theTrinity? It seems rather important, no?

In the practical church life I have been taught to receive other Christians because I sense that Christ has received them. And they should do the same with me.

"Therefore receive one another, as Christ also received you to the glory of God." (Roman 15:7)

I often can tell by that Christ has received another person just by listening to them speak about Christ. If I do not receive such a person as a brother or sister in Christ, I cut off myself from the oneness of the mystical Body.

So I listen to a person and sense " Has this person been receive by the One who also mercifully received me?" We are instructed to receive one another as Christ received us.

And the fact of the matter is that Jesus said sometimes we will make mistakes.
Sometime we will not be able to tell if a person is a real believer or not.

With JWs, most of them have no problem with unfurling the flag of disbelief themselves. You don't have to discern much. They will TELL you that Jesus is not their Lord.
So for the most part they themselves put themselves outside of the followers of the Lord Jesus.

But even with a JW, I may grant a benefit of a doubt. I think - "It is still possible that this misled person could have at some time received Jesus as Lord."

Mostly though, Jehovah's Witnesses themselves will tell me that my Lord Jesus is NOT their Lord.

As for people who are afraid that talking about the Trinity may lead them to believe in three Gods or something else, I can receive them as weak in the faith. For Paul tells us to receive those who are weak in the faith.

"But we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those who are weak and not to please ourselves." (Rom. 15:1)

On the other hand he or she may feel that I am the one "weak" in the faith because I believe the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

If there is agape love and he bears with me and I bear with him, we can still be in the one mystical Body of Christ receiving one another.

I would encourage you to ask God to lead you to some Christians who would encourage your faith rather than discourage your faith. I was led to a very family life of brothers and sisters who recognize that they have some differences. Yet they all can hold fast to the Head, Christ in love and grow up into Him in all things.

Originally posted by sonship

Example: in a different thread, sonship has basically told a JW that his belief is wrong because of a non Trinity view of Jesus. If this is hypothetically correct, then why doesn't every Christian believe in theTrinity? It seems rather important, no?

In the practical church life I have been taught to receive other Christians because I ...[text shortened]... nces. Yet they all can hold fast to the Head, Christ in love and grow up into Him in all things.

If I am not mistaken, JW's believe in Jesus, but that He is NOT God. They do not share your view that Jesus is in some way, God himself.

Why the need to proclaim that Jesus is Lord?

This only proves my point of divide amongst Christians.

If JakeChess is still viewing this thread, I would be curious what he has learned thus far.

Originally posted by DeepThought
That post wasn't one of my best. There is an interesting question regarding belief revision here. Over in debates mchill, I think it was, was saying that I ought to give Mr Trump a chance and make my judgements about him after he's had some time in office. I don't think that that is right, as I can make a judgement now and change my mind based on new ...[text shortened]... rlds are set up - the accessibility relation hasn't been set up carefully enough, or God exists.

Phew,,,,

"The accessibility relation hasn't been set up carefully enough", what if it has and humans need to evolve their brains more to access it?

Originally posted by chaney3
If I am not mistaken, JW's believe in Jesus, but that He is NOT God. They do not share your view that Jesus is in some way, God himself.

Why the need to proclaim that Jesus is Lord?

This only proves my point of divide amongst Christians.

If JakeChess is still viewing this thread, I would be curious what he has learned thus far.

If I am not mistaken, JW's believe in Jesus, but that He is NOT God. They do not share your view that Jesus is in some way, God himself.

That is true. But sometimes people get saved in spite of these groups. Some may have been received by Jesus and then afterwards got swept up in a cult or group which officially denies that Jesus is the Lord.

Why the need to proclaim that Jesus is Lord?

Probably because it is the most important truth to exist.

[/quote]
This only proves my point of divide amongst Christians. [/quote]

No. It unites believers. The problem is that we have too many things other than just "Jesus is Lord" that we put trust in.

It is not just our proclamation. It is that Christ is faithful to follow through when we give Him that proper place in our hearts, as Lord.

You see, we come into this world thinking that we are on the throne.
Reality must come to us that we are not on the throne but Jesus is Lord.

Then we feel more comfortable because the deception is coming to an end.
The center is God. The center is Jesus Christ.

Do you dread to call " O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus."

That sense of dread is of the Devil frantic that he will lose his hold on your life.
Crush his deceiving head by proclaiming the Lord Jesus.

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." (Rom. 16:20)

Come up to the golden event horizon and fall into the golden singularity.

"O Lord Jesus. My Lord Jesus. Lord I receive You into my opened heart, Lord. Thankyou Lord Jesus, for washing me from my many filthy transgressions and sins. Thank you for saving me from the wrath of God's righteous judgment."

Your only possible regret will be that you had not done so sooner in life.
But then again "God causes all things to work together for good, to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

Originally posted by sonship
Divisions among Christians is not a statement on the unreality of Christ. But it is a statement on the immaturity of many believers.

Are you saying that you have more "maturity" than those Christians who disagree with you about doctrinal matters, or are you saying that your 'divisions' with regard to other Christians is "a statement on [your] immaturity"?