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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    15 Apr '16 03:29
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
  2. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    15 Apr '16 04:06
    Originally posted by vivify
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
    Let's not find out.
  3. 15 Apr '16 06:16
    There is no such thing as intrinsic beauty.
  4. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    15 Apr '16 09:04
    Originally posted by vivify
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
    Are you asking for a blanket statement or a blanket condemnation? I think people are so vastly different that gender, age and race (and personal preference) all effect most people's judgement of beauty.

    I'm guessing the answers you'll get are based on sexual preference (hah, I almost said "gender", then I realized my mistake). But then again, I think perhaps everyone thinks women are basically "more attractive" than men, but I'm telling you, there are some real dogs out there, of both genders.

    Vive La Différence!
  5. 15 Apr '16 09:37
    Originally posted by vivify
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
    That very much depends on what you mean by 'beauty'. Often it has connotations for female beauty, but in some contexts it doesn't. It also depends on whether you are attracted to men or women.

    Maybe you should ask whether women are more beautiful than men are handsome.

    In Korea, especially in the KPOP and Kdrama industries, men often wear makeup and can really look quite beautiful. I still prefer women myself, but I would understand a woman finding more beauty in the men.
  6. Standard member vivify
    rain
    15 Apr '16 12:04
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It also depends on whether you are attracted to men or women.
    I don't think this matters at all. Women who are completely heterosexual have no problem admitting that they think another woman is beautiful. Gay men can also think a woman is beautiful.

    It's only hetero men who have a problem with admitting that another man is attractive, but that's more due to fear of how others will perceive them.
  7. 15 Apr '16 12:18
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's only hetero men who have a problem with admitting that another man is attractive, but that's more due to fear of how others will perceive them.
    Note though that you changed the word when referring to men. Why is that?
  8. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    15 Apr '16 12:55
    Originally posted by vivify
    I don't think this matters at all. Women who are completely heterosexual have no problem admitting that they think another woman is beautiful. Gay men can also think a woman is beautiful.

    It's only hetero men who have a problem with admitting that another man is attractive, but that's more due to fear of how others will perceive them.
    I'm a hetero man who thinks some men are handsome. I try to imagine my grand daughters with so and so, so perhaps in a different sense?
    I see handsome/beautiful males and females, perhaps the old adage is true, "Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder."
  9. 15 Apr '16 12:57
    Originally posted by vivify
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
    In what way is beauty anything other than a personal preference?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Apr '16 13:05
    Originally posted by vivify
    If women didn't wear make-up, didn't shave their body hair, wore the same clothes as men, and kept their hair short like most men do, would they still be considered more beautiful than men?
    If red were less red, would it still be my favorite color?

    Beauty is complete subjective and so this question is impossible to answer.

    Perhaps a better question would be whether they would still be attractive to the median heterosexual man if they did all of those things.

    I think the answer to that is probably yes, but less so.
  11. 15 Apr '16 13:12
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Are you asking for a blanket statement or a blanket condemnation? I think people are so vastly different that gender, age and race (and personal preference) all effect most people's judgement of beauty.

    I'm guessing the answers you'll get are based on sexual preference (hah, I almost said "gender", then I realized my mistake). But then again, I think p ...[text shortened]... elling you, there are some real dogs out there, of both genders.

    Vive La Différence!
    Women seem to work more at their appearance and men seem to retain their sexual attractiveness longer than women. Perhaps there is a Darwinian explanation. Human males are programed to spread their seed, which is viable for many more years than a woman's eggs. Human females need to attract a partner for more than a one night stand to help rear the kids. Yes, more important a millennium ago but these programmed needs stick around like our useless tail bone. Men who are not handsome can attract females with their appearance of being good providers. Men are unconsciously attracted to the ratio of breast to waist to hips regardless of how large a woman might be as it indicates fertility. This has been measured many times via observing eye dilation while men observe very simple black and white female bodies that have zero features other than the 3 above mentioned dimensions. I love those full bodied and beautiful Renaissance nudes by Titian and Botticelli. Back then having some fat on the bone indicated you could afford to eat. Skinny meant poor. Today, skinny, to the point of anorexic, means wealth and obese means you can only afford to eat cheap carbs. Today a tan means you are rich and not a cubicle drone stuck in a windowless office with Muzak playing in the background. In the 1800's a tan meant you were a poor field worker so women protected themselves from the sun with parasols.
  12. 15 Apr '16 13:18
    Originally posted by vivify
    I don't think this matters at all. Women who are completely heterosexual have no problem admitting that they think another woman is beautiful. Gay men can also think a woman is beautiful.

    It's only hetero men who have a problem with admitting that another man is attractive, but that's more due to fear of how others will perceive them.
    I think this is absolutely true. Afterall, it is women, not men who enjoy leafing through fashion magazines. The models are as important as the clothes. Women love watching the red carpet events. I wonder, is this heterosexual male aversion/fear of admitting a male body can be beautiful/handsome without feeling any sexual attraction found only in certain cultures and not in others or is it universal?
  13. Standard member vivify
    rain
    15 Apr '16 14:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Note though that you changed the word when referring to men. Why is that?
    Because being attractive and being beautiful isn't always the same thing. A "bad boy" may be attractive to women, but that doesn't mean they'd consider him beautiful. Since men typically don't try to be beautiful, I used "attractive" instead, since that can also include any man who actually is considered beautiful.
  14. Standard member vivify
    rain
    15 Apr '16 15:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    If red were less red, would it still be my favorite color?

    Beauty is complete subjective and so this question is impossible to answer.

    Perhaps a better question would be whether they would still be attractive to the median heterosexual man if they did all of those things.

    I think the answer to that is probably yes, but less so.
    Beauty really isn't as subjective as people make it out to be. Would you agree that if a world-wide poll were taken asking people if Marilyn Monroe or Liz Taylor were beautiful, that more people would say yes than no?
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    15 Apr '16 16:05
    In ancient Greece men were considered more beautiful. That's why they made so many nude sculptures of men.