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  1. 01 Jul '17 21:26 / 1 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/12/jakarta-governor-ahoks-blasphemy-trial-all-you-need-to-know

    "Jakarta governor Ahok's blasphemy trial: all you need to know.
    Ahok, a Christian of Chinese descent, has angered Indonesia’s religious conservatives
    by referencing a verse from the Islamic holy book on the campaign trail."

    "Indonesia’s strict 1965 blasphemy law, which makes it possible to prosecute
    Ahok for his provocative comments. Rights groups have long campaigned for
    the law to be revoked. In 2012, a civil servant from Sumatra was sentenced
    to two-and-a-half years in prison for declaring himself an atheist on Facebook."

    "Several indicators over recent years point to rising religious intolerance in the world’s
    largest Muslim-majority nation, including growing discrimination and attacks against
    religious minorities, and a recent wave of vitriol against the LGBT community."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/09/jakarta-governor-ahok-found-guilty-of-blasphemy-jailed-for-two-years

    "Jakarta governor Ahok sentenced to two years in prison for blasphemy"

    "Jakarta’s Christian governor has been sentenced to two years in prison after a trial that was
    widely seen as a measure of religious pluralism in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim-majority country."

    "The blasphemy charge related to Ahok’s reference to a passage of the
    Qur’an during his re-election campaign in September, which hardline
    Islamist groups said amounted to insulting the holy book.
    He insinuated that his opponents had used a Qur’anic verse to trick people
    into voting against him. An edited version of the speech went viral, sparking outrage.
    Ahok, a Christian with ethnic Chinese roots, is a “double minority” in Indonesia."

    "Harsono said more than 100 Indonesians had been convicted of blasphemy
    in the past decade, with acquittals in such cases extremely rare."

    Visiting Indonesia, Barack Obama has expressed his support for Ahok.
  2. 02 Jul '17 10:24
    Bigot
  3. 02 Jul '17 19:45
    Crickets
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jul '17 20:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    Crickets
    Blasphemy laws are BAD.

    Satisfied?
  5. 02 Jul '17 20:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Bigot
    "Visiting Indonesia, Barack Obama has expressed his support for Ahok."
    --Duchess64

    Is the self-styled Christian Whodey, a fanatical hater of Barack Obama and Muslims, upset
    that Barack Obama would support a Christian convicted of blasphemy against Islam?

    By the way, it's remarkable that Ahok, an ethnic Chinese Christian, could have become a
    governor of Jakarta. (It was nearly like a Polish Jew becoming mayor of Berlin.) Indonesia has
    a terrible record of bigotry (including mass violence) against its ethnic Chinese minority.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_Chinese_Indonesians

    The Wikipedia article seems to be written with some right-wing Indonesian nationalist bias.
    I note that the article prefers to take some of the lowest estimates of both the total people and
    the ethnic Chinese massacred in Suharto's 1965 coup d'état (which was approved by the USA)
    as though its figures must be undisputed facts. Other sources give much higher figures.
  6. 02 Jul '17 21:13 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Blasphemy laws are BAD.

    Satisfied?
    That is because you are biased bigot. You need to be more tolerant of blasphemy laws and Sharia law.

    Here is the message Barak Obama has for us after his visit to Indonesia

    http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-bloggers/3565993/posts

    The Guardian reports:

    The former US president said some countries had adopted “an aggressive kind of nationalism” and “increased resentment of minority groups”, in a speech in Indonesia on Saturday that could be seen as a commentary on the US as well as Indonesia.

    “It’s been clear for a while that the world is at a crossroads. At an inflection point,” Obama said, telling a Jakarta crowd stories of how much the capital had improved since he lived there as a child.

    But he said that increased prosperity had been accompanied by new global problems, adding that as the world confronts issues ranging from inequality to terrorism, some countries – both developed and less developed – had adopted a more aggressive and isolationist stance.

    “If we don’t stand up for tolerance and moderation and respect for others, if we begin to doubt ourselves and all that we have accomplished, then much of the progress that we have made will not continue,” he said.

    “What we will see is more and more people arguing against democracy, we will see more and more people who are looking to restrict freedom of the press, and we’ll see more intolerance, more tribal divisions, more ethnic divisions, and religious divisions and more violence,” Obama asserted.

    We all know that our real enemy is the orange man in the White House. Stop deflecting.
  7. 02 Jul '17 22:25
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Blasphemy laws are BAD.

    Satisfied?
    “What we will see is more and more people arguing against democracy, we will see more and more people who are looking to restrict freedom of the press, and we’ll see more intolerance, more tribal divisions, more ethnic divisions, and religious divisions and more violence,” Obama asserted.

    It seems to me that you hate democracy. After all, these people voted for those who put the blasphemy laws into place.

    And as we all know, democracy is our one true virtue that makes everything right again.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jul '17 22:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    “What we will see is more and more people arguing against democracy, we will see more and more people who are looking to restrict freedom of the press, and we’ll see more intolerance, more tribal divisions, more ethnic divisions, and religious divisions and more violence,” Obama asserted.

    It seems to me that you hate democracy. After all, these people vo ...[text shortened]... lace.

    And as we all know, democracy is our one true virtue that makes everything right again.


    That Indonesia is enforcing unjust laws violating the People's Natural Rights does not justify your calls for Holy War against Muslims.
  9. 02 Jul '17 22:51 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder


    That Indonesia is enforcing unjust laws violating the People's Natural Rights does not justify your calls for Holy War against Muslims.
    Unjust laws? Says who? An infidel like you? All you have to do is not offend Muslims. Geesh, how hard is that?

    I thought we should place our faith in democracy.

    My guess is that you will be one of those ones celebrating the 4rth of July and embracing nationalism.

    Disgusting.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jul '17 22:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Unjust laws? Says who? An infidel like you? All you have to do is not offend Muslims. Geesh, how hard is that?

    I thought we should place our faith in democracy.

    My guess is that you will be one of those ones celebrating the 4rth of July and embracing nationalism.

    Disgusting.
    It must kill you to see Obama giving a thoughtful speech on such important issues while the President you keep apologizing for spends his time making tweets attacking Joe and Mika.

    EDIT: I'm behind the times; here's what Trump was tweeting today: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/02/trump-tweets-video-wrestling-cnn-240178
  11. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    03 Jul '17 07:34
    Originally posted by no1marauder


    That Indonesia is enforcing unjust laws violating the People's Natural Rights does not justify your calls for Holy War against Muslims.
    But if they vote for it, it is the will of the people. (Your favorite fallback line.)
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jul '17 08:43
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    But if they vote for it, it is the will of the people. (Your favorite fallback line.)
    From the other thread: Where the lawmakers have violated the People's rights and/or the Constitution, they have stepped outside their legitimate lawmaking powers.

    The Government actions you incessantly complain about do neither and are thus legitimate objects of the People's political preferences as expressed by their elected representatives.
  13. 03 Jul '17 10:09
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It must kill you to see Obama giving a thoughtful speech on such important issues while the President you keep apologizing for spends his time making tweets attacking Joe and Mika.

    EDIT: I'm behind the times; here's what Trump was tweeting today: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/02/trump-tweets-video-wrestling-cnn-240178
    Oh dear, railing about another elected person like Trump?

    You seem to be saying that democracy is an abject failure, or is it your belief system that eventually democracy will do the right thing, but electing another Dim to replace Trump and the more unlikely scenario of the Muslim people of Indonesia electing people who will do away with blasphemy laws?
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jul '17 10:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Oh dear, railing about another elected person like Trump?

    You seem to be saying that democracy is an abject failure, or is it your belief system that eventually democracy will do the right thing, but electing another Dim to replace Trump and the more unlikely scenario of the Muslim people of Indonesia electing people who will do away with blasphemy laws?
    I'm saying none of the above as you well know.

    In the long run, I see no reason to believe that blasphemy laws will not be done away with Indonesia; they used to be quite common in the West as well. There were blasphemy laws in all the States when the Constitution was ratified and there were blasphemy convictions in the US in the 1920s.

    I have confidence that these type of laws will eventually cease to exist.

    EDIT: Enforcement of the law seems to exist mainly in just one region of the country and there is already a political movement to end such laws.https://www.thenational.ae/in-indonesia-moderate-muslims-call-for-blasphemy-law-to-be-repealed-1.47068
  15. 03 Jul '17 13:58 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'm saying none of the above as you well know.

    In the long run, I see no reason to believe that blasphemy laws will not be done away with Indonesia; they used to be quite common in the West as well. There were blasphemy laws in all the States when the Constitution was ratified and there were blasphemy convictions in the US in the 1920s.

    I have con ...[text shortened]... //www.thenational.ae/in-indonesia-moderate-muslims-call-for-blasphemy-law-to-be-repealed-1.47068
    But you do seem to be saying that democracy will fix the religious extremism.

    On the one hand, you say that you have no reason to believe that blasphemy laws will not be done away with in Indonesia, and in the same breath, say that you have confidence that these types of laws will eventually cease to exist altogether as people become enlightened like yourself by rejecting the notion that a God exists.

    I get the vibe that you believe democracy, as well as human reason and science, will fix all of our problems.....eventually.

    In the meantime, we simply need to be tolerant of their intolerance till they come around.