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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    29 May '16 13:411 edit
    "The Road to Serfdom", by Fredrich Hayek

    There can be no doubt that most of those in the democracies who demand a central direction of all economic activity still believe that socialism and individual freedom can be combined. Yet socialism was early recognized by many thinkers as the greatest threat to freedom.
    It is rarely remembered now that socialism in its beginnings was frankly authoritarian. It began quite openly as a reaction against the liberalism of the French Revolution. The French writers who laid its foundation had no doubt that their ideas could be put into practice only by a strong dictatorial government. The first of modern planners, Saint-Simon, predicted that those who did not obey his proposed planning boards would be "treated as cattle".
    Nobody saw more clearly than the great political thinker Tocqueville that democracy stands in an irreconcilable conflict with socialism: "Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom," he said, "Democracy attaches all possible value to each man," he said in 1848, "while socialism makes each man a mere agent, A mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

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    In order for there to be "equality", must their be a government to impose it?

    Additionally, can "equality" ever be attained in society? Has there ever been absolute equality within society whether socialist or otherwise?
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    29 May '16 14:22
    Inside every liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out.
  3. Germany
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    29 May '16 14:25
    Originally posted by whodey

    In order for there to be "equality", must their be a government to impose it?

    Additionally, can "equality" ever be attained in society? Has there ever been absolute equality within society whether socialist or otherwise?
    Define "equality" and "absolute equality."
  4. Joined
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    29 May '16 14:58
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Define "equality" and "absolute equality."
    Equality is in the eyes of the beholder.

    Those who hold power tell us what them mean, and are ever changing.

    Only with the aid of the voting mob and the elite and rich stooges they elect can we know what they mean.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    29 May '16 15:011 edit
    Originally posted by whodey

    In order for there to be "equality", must their be a government to impose it?
    The National Guard was once needed to protect nine black students in Arkansas, because segregating schools was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

    And it's a safe bet that rich slave owners wouldn't have relinquished their "property" out of their own good will.

    Unfortunately, Americans need the government to enforce equality.
  6. Germany
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    29 May '16 15:02
    Originally posted by whodey
    Equality is in the eyes of the beholder.

    Those who hold power tell us what them mean, and are ever changing.

    Only with the aid of the voting mob and the elite and rich stooges they elect can we know what they mean.
    In that case your question is not meaningfully defined.
  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    29 May '16 20:21
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Define "equality" and "absolute equality."
    I think it would be more useful for him to define "socialism" and "democracy".
  8. SubscriberWajoma
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    29 May '16 20:47
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I think it would be more useful for him to define "socialism" and "democracy".
    You're seeing the results of socialism in Venezuela now.

    That's a start for you.

    And if we consult No1, he will say "will of 'the people' democratically elected Chavez" so that'll help you with democracy.
  9. Germany
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    29 May '16 21:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I think it would be more useful for him to define "socialism" and "democracy".
    Baby steps.
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    29 May '16 22:40
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Inside every liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out.
    Yes I worry a lot that Denmark may return to its Vking ways and raid north East England and ireland again.
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    30 May '16 08:09
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Inside every liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out.
    yes, on the opposite side you have conservatives restricting the rights of others. they are the true defenders of freedom.
  12. Joined
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    30 May '16 10:232 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I think it would be more useful for him to define "socialism" and "democracy".
    Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

    Democratic socialism is a political ideology that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production, with democratic management of enterprises within a socialist economic system. The term "democratic socialism" is sometimes used synonymously with "socialism"; the adjective "democratic" is often added to distinguish it from the Marxist–Leninist brand of socialism, which is widely viewed as being non-democratic.[1]

    Happy?
  13. Joined
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    30 May '16 10:27
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    yes, on the opposite side you have conservatives restricting the rights of others. they are the true defenders of freedom.
    What rights are those exactly?
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    30 May '16 10:57
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Yes I worry a lot that Denmark may return to its Vking ways and raid north East England and ireland again.
    Stupid comment that has nothing to do with what's going on in our universities today.
    Google "college totalitarianism" and take your pick of the dozens of articles regarding what liberal students are doing in the name of social justice., etc.
  15. Joined
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    30 May '16 10:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    What rights are those exactly?
    the right to marry. the right to be treated equally.


    if 2 men get married, it has 0 impact on a conservative person's marriage and yet some conservatives will try to deny them that right anyway.
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