@AThousandYoung saidArabic is a Semitic language like classical Hebrew is... They are all related to each other. Even the Bible says this, with the arabs being descended from Esau and thus being very closely linked to Abraham (their grandfather).
The original Palestinians were Greek. not Arab, and not Hebrew. They were called the Sea People. They worshipped Dagon and Goliath was their champion.
Jews come from Judea. Arabs come from Arabia. Palestinians come from Philistine. These are three separate ethnic groups.
[quote]https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aax0061
We find that all three [b]A ...[text shortened]... ek.
https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/10/25/unraveling-the-greek-history-and-identity-of-palestine/
The Hebrews are not incredibly distinct from a lot of people around them. While the chosen people, they do not have some special genetic distinction or anything.
@Rajk999 saidFirst, now I know you are biased and Jewish. This has to be the only explanation as to why someone in a discussion forum would suddenly endorse might makes right as a valid way of understanding the world.
All these personal comments and questions which have no bearing on the discussion is a sign of yet another failed argument. So far I have made no personal remarks about you, neither do I intend to make any. The Jews are a powerful force with or without the US. Also the Jews will never lose their support base in the US and the West because the alternative is supporting Islam. Islam is demonstrating right now as we speak how evil they are and people are learning.
Second, this is a false dichotomy. Nobody has to become a lover or ally of Islam to simply stop supporting the genocidal Zionist state.
Are Americans "enemies" or "allies" of Hindus? Are we enemies or allies of Sikhs? They are neither. There is nothing in our policy which says that we have to take a side on the Kalistan conflict or anything like that.
@Philokalia saidResorting to comments of a personal nature is conceding the discussion. Also I never said anything about this 'might makes right nonsense' you keep saying. ou dont seem to be able to carry on a disucssion in a 'hands off' way.
First, now I know you are biased and Jewish. This has to be the only explanation as to why someone in a discussion forum would suddenly endorse might makes right as a valid way of understanding the world.
Second, this is a false dichotomy. Nobody has to become a lover or ally of Islam to simply stop supporting the genocidal Zionist state.
Are Americans "enemi ...[text shortened]... in our policy which says that we have to take a side on the Kalistan conflict or anything like that.
@Philokalia saidWhy do you keep accusing people of being Jews? That's weird.
First, now I know you are biased and Jewish. This has to be the only explanation as to why someone in a discussion forum would suddenly endorse might makes right as a valid way of understanding the world.
Second, this is a false dichotomy. Nobody has to become a lover or ally of Islam to simply stop supporting the genocidal Zionist state.
Are Americans "enemi ...[text shortened]... in our policy which says that we have to take a side on the Kalistan conflict or anything like that.
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@Philokalia saidYou've been exposed to a lot of mainland Asian propaganda coming out of Russia and China. That's why you're so fixated on Jews and are apparently ignorant of the Palestinian-American lobby.
I've never hard of USCPR, though. What is your argument on this?
Obviously, big pharma and other lobbies are influential and can sink politicians. But the one thing that routinely gets people sunk is their stance on Israel. People are primary'd over this - it happens even to democrats who are popular among the local constituency like Ilhan Omar.
One protest slowed down my commute home by an annoying 15 minutes or so.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/pro-palestine-protests-shut-down-hollywood-streets-oscars-1236152040/
The universities are almost all pro-Palestinian over here. That's part of the reason why the Right is attacking education.
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@Philokalia saidArabs aren't a Levantine people! They have their own peninsula to the southeast.
Arabic is a Semitic language like classical Hebrew is... They are all related to each other. Even the Bible says this, with the arabs being descended from Esau and thus being very closely linked to Abraham (their grandfather).
The Hebrews are not incredibly distinct from a lot of people around them. While the chosen people, they do not have some special genetic distinction or anything.
Palestinian genes, which are NOT Semitic but Greek, are measurably different from Hebrew genes. You need to exclude the Arab contribution to their gene pool as a control for this sort of thing.
In addition to the Hebrews in Judea and Israel, the Palestinians in Palestine, the Arabs not even in the Levant out in Arabia...
There were ALSO Canaanite Semites who were none of the above. These people were not Jews or Palestinians, but they were Semitic Levantines.
Also Phoenicians to the north in what is now Lebanon. I think they are Semitic Levantines but not Arab or Hebrew.
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@Philokalia saidThe Hyksos were Canaanite Semites who conquered Egypt around 1600 BCE with chariot technology they learned from Aryan populations (e.g. Hittites) who were moving into Turkey from the north. They predate the Sea People by several centuries. They were related to but not necessarily identical to the Hebrews, Canaanites and Phoenicians.
I have heard it argued that both the Philistines and Jews were descended from different Mediterranean Sea Peoples, and the Jews being descended from the Hyksos who are debatably a Sea People seems pretty common. I've also heard that the Philistines were just a Phoenician adjacent society, and that the Hebrews also were, basically, such a society, and linguistically linked ...[text shortened]... er and are simultaneously a bit obscure. At least in the sense that they are not often talked about.
@Philokalia saidI reject your implied statute of limitations on history. If you reject historical continuity of populations over time, then this leads to the obvious conclusion:
But I believe the Philistine peoples are distinct from modern Palestinians. It is hard to imagine a Palestinian that was a classical pagan.
And this is also worth talking about: are the Jews who have the Talmud truly reflective of the Hebrews who did not have such a series of books?
If the Israelis can hang on for enough time all of your objections will go away, because the Palestinians of 2050/2100/2200/2500 or whatever won't be the Palestinians of today.
@Rajk999 saidI suspect someone is Jewish because of their crazy allegiance to the state of Israel, and I suspect they are not Israeli because the do not have an Israeli flag and speak fluent English (though countless diaspora Jews in Israel speak fluent English)...
Resorting to comments of a personal nature is conceding the discussion. Also I never said anything about this 'might makes right nonsense' you keep saying. ou dont seem to be able to carry on a disucssion in a 'hands off' way.
... And you're out here acting like I am insulting you by wondering if you are Jewish? You are defensive, and unwilling to identify whether you are or you aren't?
What's wrong with being Jewish?
What is this crazy complex all these people have about "Oh no, you have spoken the word 'Jew,' you are asking about Judaism, you are talking about Israel..! This is getting scary..!"
If we were discussing an issue related to China or Korea or Japan, and we were interested in the basic biographical data of zealous supporters of these states, nobody would find that suspicious or strange. It would also be the case that nobody would want to go to great lengths to conceal whether they were or weren't.
Basic biographical information that is relevant to a discussion on Israel suddenly becomes taboo.
@AThousandYoung saidHow so?
Why do you keep accusing people of being Jews? That's weird.
It would explain their allegiance very elegantly.
Here's what's weird: believing in the ethnic nationalism that enables the genocide of a different ethnic group...
But you aren't even that ethnicity.
Like imagine me coming here and talking about maybe the Turks had a very good reason to do what they did to the Armenians..!
Wouldn't you wonder if I was Turkish or something?
@AThousandYoung saidIsrael lobby = owns politicians, primaries politicians that oppose Israel.
You've been exposed to a lot of mainland Asian propaganda coming out of Russia and China. That's why you're so fixated on Jews and are apparently ignorant of the Palestinian-American lobby.
One protest slowed down my commute home by an annoying 15 minutes or so.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/pro-palestine-protests-shut-down-hollywood-street ...[text shortened]... most all pro-Palestinian over here. That's part of the reason why the Right is attacking education.
Palestinian lobby = protesters stopping traffic to try to raise awareness about genocide.
What level of disparate impact is this?
@AThousandYoung saidWhat you are saying is certainly right. Imagine that, in the year 2320, we've seen the Palestinians largely removed from their homeland for two centuries, and those who are left are largely intermixed with the Chileans and Europeans that they are with...
I reject your implied statute of limitations on history. If you reject historical continuity of populations over time, then this leads to the obvious conclusion:
If the Israelis can hang on for enough time all of your objections will go away, because the Palestinians of 2050/2100/2200/2500 or whatever won't be the Palestinians of today.
And the Israelis are people who have just been living there for two hundred years.
In this scenario, there is some truth to that.
So, logically, what follows..?
It's OK for us to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians because they will be a fractured people in 200 years, anyways, and then the Israelis will have full claims to it... Thus solving the problem?
That is a non-serious position and you know it.
@AThousandYoung saidI typed "Levantine Arab" into Google. AI popped up sand said this:
Arabs aren't a Levantine people! They have their own peninsula to the southeast.
Palestinian genes, which are NOT Semitic but Greek, are measurably different from Hebrew genes. You need to exclude the Arab contribution to their gene pool as a control for this sort of thing.
In addition to the Hebrews in Judea and Israel, the Palestinians in Palestine, the Arabs ...[text shortened]... ns to the north in what is now Lebanon. I think they are Semitic Levantines but not Arab or Hebrew.
Levantine Arabs are people from the region of the Levant (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine) who speak Arabic and share a distinct Levantine dialect, but their origins are diverse, primarily deriving from ancient Semitic-speaking peoples who were later Arabized and intermixed with Arab migrants from the Arabian Peninsula. They represent an Arabized population with pre-Arab ancestry, and their culture reflects both their Semitic roots and the influence of centuries of Arabization and Islamic expansion.
I understand you disagree with the legitimacy of this category because it serves your political position.
However, academics and people around the world do accept the category of Levantine Arab.
Also, define Semitic...
You need to exclude the Arab contribution to their gene pool as a control for this sort of thing.
But then we are led to this remarkable conclusion: even with the Arab admixture, the Palestinian people are still more close genetically to the original Hebrews than every modern Jewish group.
Isn't that wild?
It really helps emphasize the fact tha the Hebrews do not have a legitimate claim to the area.
Also Phoenicians to the north in what is now Lebanon. I think they are Semitic Levantines but not Arab or Hebrew.
That makes sense but I believe Semitic. Oxford dictionary here:
Se·mit·ic
/səˈmidik/
adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.
@Philokalia saidIt is a non-serious but logical consequence of your non-serious position.
What you are saying is certainly right. Imagine that, in the year 2320, we've seen the Palestinians largely removed from their homeland for two centuries, and those who are left are largely intermixed with the Chileans and Europeans that they are with...
And the Israelis are people who have just been living there for two hundred years.
In this scenario, there is som ...[text shortened]... ull claims to it... Thus solving the problem?[/i]
That is a non-serious position and you know it.
@Philokalia saidMaybe Palestinians should work harder to accumulate influence in the USA if they want America's friendship for their home nation.
Israel lobby = owns politicians, primaries politicians that oppose Israel.
Palestinian lobby = protesters stopping traffic to try to raise awareness about genocide.
What level of disparate impact is this?