Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    02 Apr '18 03:41
    This is pretty pertinent because it shows us two things:

    (1) See? You can have a higher murder rate than a major American city without guns.

    (2) Policies that stopped and frisked at risk youth of certain demographics actually were working to prevent crime and keep the situation from spiraling out of control.

    Very interesting potential discussions.

    London has overtaken New York City for number of murders for the first time in over 200 years under the mayoralty of Labour’s Sadiq Khan.
    Britain’s multicultural capital edged ahead of the American city — once so notorious for its high crime rates that it was chosen as the setting for Charles Bronson’s Death Wish –– in February, The Times reports.



    London saw 15 killings to New York’s 14 over the course of the month, and appears to have outstripped ‘Gotham’ yet again in March, with 22 killings to 21.

    Historically, London has had a murder rate per person between half and one-twentieth of New York’s since 1800, according to FBI data and studies by University of California researcher Eric Monkkonen.

    The change is partly a consequence of Mayor Khan’s campaign against using stop and search on ethnic minorities, with London police chief Cressida Dick admitting that constables have become “fearful” of confronting suspects as they “might get into trouble or might not be supported if they had a complaint”.


    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/04/01/murders-london-overtake-new-york-first-time-since-1800-sadiq-khan/
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
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    02 Apr '18 08:16
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    This is pretty pertinent because it shows us two things:

    (1) See? You can have a higher murder rate than a major American city without guns.

    (2) Policies that stopped and frisked at risk youth of certain demographics actually were working to prevent crime and keep the situation from spiraling out of control.

    Very interesting potential d ...[text shortened]... eitbart.com/london/2018/04/01/murders-london-overtake-new-york-first-time-since-1800-sadiq-khan/
    For one month. 🙄

    Basically, you're telling everybody that in the last 200 years plus 'almost' exclusively more people have been murdered each month in NYC than London. And why is that Sherlock?

    ......Guns!
  3. Germany
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    02 Apr '18 08:38
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Very interesting potential discussions.

    [...]

    The change is partly a consequence of Mayor Khan’s campaign against using stop and search on ethnic minorities [...]
    Tip: don't cite neo-Nazi websites making these kind of unsubstantiated sweeping claims if you want "interesting discussions."
  4. Standard membervivify
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    02 Apr '18 11:101 edit
    Crime in New York has dropped dramatically due to tougher gun laws. New York has some of the strictest requirements in the US to own a gun.

    If the entire country continues this direction, we can have less crime than a European country.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    02 Apr '18 11:14
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    This is pretty pertinent because it shows us two things:

    (1) See? You can have a higher murder rate than a major American city without guns.

    (2) Policies that stopped and frisked at risk youth of certain demographics actually were working to prevent crime and keep the situation from spiraling out of control.

    Very interesting potential d ...[text shortened]... eitbart.com/london/2018/04/01/murders-london-overtake-new-york-first-time-since-1800-sadiq-khan/
    New York City has, of course, stopped following the exact same policy of stop and search targeted at ethnic minorities.

    Why has its murder rate dropped IF abandoning such a policy leads to more murders?
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Apr '18 11:47
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    For one month. 🙄

    You really need a Mathematician to look at the stats to see if it is a problem.
    Let's revaluate after a year.

    Or we could look at the past hour and deduce murders are down/up 🙄
  7. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    02 Apr '18 11:55
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    You really need a Mathematician to look at the stats to see if it is a problem.
    Let's revaluate after a year.

    Or we could look at the past hour and deduce murders are down/up 🙄
    Hey, I was using that emoticon.
  8. Germany
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    02 Apr '18 12:11
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    You really need a Mathematician to look at the stats to see if it is a problem.
    Let's revaluate after a year.

    Or we could look at the past hour and deduce murders are down/up 🙄
    No murders at all, or even crimes in London during the past femtosecond. Safest city in the world with a crime rate of zero!
  9. Joined
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    02 Apr '18 15:241 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Crime in New York has dropped dramatically due to tougher gun laws. New York has some of the strictest requirements in the US to own a gun.

    If the entire country continues this direction, we can have less crime than a European country.
    crime was lowered in NY because of Guilliani stop and frisk policy. Profiling that you liberals hate so much.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    02 Apr '18 15:552 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    crime was lowered in NY because of Guilliani stop and frisk policy. Profiling that you liberals hate so much.
    The policy was ended and crime dropped even lower. Crime dropped all over the US in the same period in areas with no such policies.

    Your post simply repeats a right wing myth with no empirical evidence to support it.

    EDIT: Instead, as shown below, the murder rate fell while the number of stops declined. In fact, the biggest fall occurred precisely when the number of stops also fell by a large amount — in 2013. https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/fact-sheet-stop-and-frisks-effect-crime-new-york-city

    EDIT2: Some crow eating from the conservative National Review:

    Like many conservatives, I had grave concerns about curtailing the New York City police department’s controversial tactic of stopping and frisking potential suspects for weapons. I was inclined to defer to the police when they protested that they needed the option to stop, question, and frisk New Yorkers on a mere reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing instead of probable cause that the targeted person had committed a crime. Restricting the tactic, I thought, would cause an uptick, maybe even a spike, in crime rates. Mayor Bill de Blasio, who made ending stop-and-frisk the centerpiece of his successful 2013 campaign for mayor, struck me as a man who was cynically willing to tolerate an increase in crime if he thought it to his political advantage to amplify leftist voters’ core belief that policing was out of control.

    Today in New York City, use of stop-and-frisk, which the department justified via the 1968 Terry v. Ohio Supreme Court ruling, has crashed. Yet the statistics are clear: Crime is lower than ever. It’s possible that crime would be even lower had stop-and-frisk been retained, but that’s moving the goalposts. I and others argued that crime would rise. Instead, it fell. We were wrong. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/new-york-city-stop-and-frisk-crime-decline-conservatives-wrong/
  11. Joined
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    02 Apr '18 19:26
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The policy was ended and crime dropped even lower. Crime dropped all over the US in the same period in areas with no such policies.

    Your post simply repeats a right wing myth with no empirical evidence to support it.

    EDIT: Instead, as shown below, the murder rate fell while the number of stops declined. In fact, the biggest fall occurred precisely ...[text shortened]... //www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/new-york-city-stop-and-frisk-crime-decline-conservatives-wrong/
    S&F is still alive and well...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/nyregion/nypd-stop-and-frisk-monitor.html?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FStop%20and%20Frisk&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=10&pgtype=collection
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    02 Apr '18 19:40
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    crime was lowered in NY because of Guilliani stop and frisk policy. Profiling that you liberals hate so much.
    Getting rid of low fat yogurt on Seinfeld.
    Guilliani's biggest accomplishment.😀
  13. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    02 Apr '18 22:04
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    For one month. 🙄

    Basically, you're telling everybody that in the last 200 years plus 'almost' exclusively more people have been murdered each month in NYC than London. And why is that Sherlock?

    ......Guns!
    The point would actually be that sociological factors have caused an increase in the murders in London, and thus these were the factors driving murders previously in the US.

    One can possess guns and have a low per capita murder rate,lower than a place which literally confiscates bloody knives from people.
  14. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    02 Apr '18 22:07
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    New York City has, of course, stopped following the exact same policy of stop and search targeted at ethnic minorities.

    Why has its murder rate dropped IF abandoning such a policy leads to more murders?
    NYC had undergone intense gentrification in the aughts and, moreover, had been experiencing massive declines in the nineties like everywhere else.

    Just like how some policies of the past benefit the status quo, the same is true for NYC.

    I suspect if de Blasio were to be mayor for over a decade and halt gentrification, etc., we would see things go back to how they were before slowly and he'd be voted out.
  15. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    02 Apr '18 22:09
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The policy was ended and crime dropped even lower. Crime dropped all over the US in the same period in areas with no such policies.

    Your post simply repeats a right wing myth with no empirical evidence to support it.

    EDIT: Instead, as shown below, the murder rate fell while the number of stops declined. In fact, the biggest fall occurred precisely ...[text shortened]... //www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/new-york-city-stop-and-frisk-crime-decline-conservatives-wrong/
    Correlation does not mean causation.
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