Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    13 Jun '18 23:04
    https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/13/new-dnc-rule-could-block-bernie-sanders-from-running-as-democrat-in-2020-presidential-election

    Apparently the DNC is thinking about a new rule that says one must be apart of the democrat party to win the nomination.

    If they do, will it keep Bernie out of the 2020 race?
  2. Joined
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    16 Jun '18 07:32
    Originally posted by @whodey
    https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/13/new-dnc-rule-could-block-bernie-sanders-from-running-as-democrat-in-2020-presidential-election

    Apparently the DNC is thinking about a new rule that says one must be apart of the democrat party to win the nomination.

    If they do, will it keep Bernie out of the 2020 race?
    No. Sanders will just declare himself a democrat. Lieberman switched from democrat to independent to win an election and there is nothing wrong with doing the opposite.
    Anybody can switch parties whenever they want. Reagan used to be a democrat before he switched.
  3. Standard membervivify
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    16 Jun '18 12:412 edits
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    No. Sanders will just declare himself a democrat. Lieberman switched from democrat to independent to win an election and there is nothing wrong with doing the opposite.
    Anybody can switch parties whenever they want. Reagan used to be a democrat before he switched.
    Lieberman switched to independent after being a major force in killing the public option from Obamacare, which would've been government-run healthcare competing against private insurers; this competition would've driven health insurance costs down. Joe Lieberman took money from insurance companies in order to do so, and became an ally of Republicans in order to do so.

    This made Lieberman immensely unpopular with his own party. He quite simply couldn't continue to have a career if he ran as a Democrat. So he's definitely no example of some sort of norm regarding people switching to and from independent.

    As far as this rule change, this is a major step back for the "party of inclusion". Requiring allegiance is a first step killing independent thinkers from being nominated by Dems. If you have to declare yourself a Democrat, you may next have to affirm your commitment to party ideals; that would only lead to more partisanship and establishment politicians getting the nomination.

    I don't get why Dems would create such a rule, especially since Sanders was the only major 2016 candidate to not be viewed as a "lesser of other evils" option. Dems have quite clearly not learned their lesson, and are begging to lose the election.
  4. Joined
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    16 Jun '18 15:50
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Lieberman switched to independent after being a major force in killing the public option from Obamacare, which would've been government-run healthcare competing against private insurers; this competition would've driven health insurance costs down. Joe Lieberman took money from insurance companies in order to do so, and became an ally of Republicans in orde ...[text shortened]... ption. Dems have quite clearly not learned their lesson, and are begging to lose the election.
    I don't like Lieberman either. I'm using him as an example of being able to switch parties even though it is obvious that it is only to win, not because of a genuine change in political ideology.

    I would not matter with Sanders because his supporters would be understanding of the disadvantages of being in a minor political party. The only way to get in the debates is to run in a major political party.

    The only way it would keep Sanders out is if he is unwilling to pledge allegiance to the party out of honesty and pride. I don't see any reason why he would do that.

    The Dems already stacked their party against outsiders of the party with super delegates. Here in Michigan Sanders got more votes than Hillary, yet Hillary got most of the electoral delegates because the dems rigged their system like they are parliament or something.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Jun '18 17:50
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Lieberman switched to independent after being a major force in killing the public option from Obamacare, which would've been government-run healthcare competing against private insurers; this competition would've driven health insurance costs down. Joe Lieberman took money from insurance companies in order to do so, and became an ally of Republicans in orde ...[text shortened]... ption. Dems have quite clearly not learned their lesson, and are begging to lose the election.
    It seems a reasonable enough rule to me; why should the Democratic Party nominate non-members for President?
  6. Joined
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    16 Jun '18 19:04
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    It seems a reasonable enough rule to me; why should the Democratic Party nominate non-members for President?
    It is only reasonable if some minor political parties are included in the debates. They can't get noticed if they are excluded. They get excluded because they don't get noticed (polls are influenced by media coverage).
    The system is stacked against minority political parties. That is the only reason minor political parties migrate to one of the major political parties. Eliminate that problem and there is no need for the exclusion of non-members.

    Allow some minor political parties into the debates!
  7. Standard membervivify
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    16 Jun '18 20:152 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    It seems a reasonable enough rule to me; why should the Democratic Party nominate non-members for President?
    Is that worth preventing a man like Bernie Sanders from being backed by a major party?
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Jun '18 21:23
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Is that worth preventing a man like Bernie Sanders from being backed by a major party?
    I like Bernie but I fail to see why he should get a special dispensation. It's not at all unreasonable to ask that the candidate for President of the United States of a political party be a member of that party. In my State, only members of a party can even vote in the Party primary.
  9. Zugzwang
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    16 Jun '18 21:381 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify to No1Marauder
    Is that worth preventing a man like Bernie Sanders from being backed by a major party?
    If Bernie Sanders wants the support of the Democratic Party, then he may formally join it.
    No one's attempting to block him.
  10. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    16 Jun '18 21:47
    I wish Sanders would create a Socialist party. That would help prevent the Democrat party from having to incorporate Socialism into their platform and pander to the pro-Socialist constituents.
  11. Zugzwang
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    16 Jun '18 21:512 edits
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    I wish Sanders would create a Socialist party. That would help prevent the Democrat party
    from having to incorporate Socialism into their platform and pander to the pro-Socialist constituents.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

    "Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is a democratic socialist organization in the United States.
    DSA is a multi-tendency organization of democratic socialist, left-wing social democratic and
    labor-oriented members, often also affiliated with other political parties and/or organizations.
    DSA was a member of the Socialist International (SI) from its founding in 1982 until August 2017,
    when it voted to leave the organization over the SI's acceptance of what it perceived as neoliberal economic policies.
    DSA has its roots in the Socialist Party of America (SPA), whose most prominent leaders
    included Eugene Debs, Norman Thomas and Michael Harrington."

    Barbara Ehrenreich (a writer) is (or was) an activist in the DSA.
  12. Standard membervivify
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    16 Jun '18 23:50
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    I like Bernie but I fail to see why he should get a special dispensation. It's not at all unreasonable to ask that the candidate for President of the United States of a political party be a member of that party. In my State, only members of a party can even vote in the Party primary.
    You're right, it's not unreasonable.

    It's just that after nominating a black man followed by nominating a woman who ran against an independent, Democrats seemed like the party of new ideas, inclusive of all types of people, including independents. I think that spirit will take Democrats far. That's why it's a shame to see them now demand a type of conformity by blocking independents.

    Again, it's not unreasonable. But it was kinda cool an independent could've won the Dem nomination. Had this rule been in effect last election, the world may never have heard of Bernie, and the Dems may never have adopted some of his policies, included largely because of Bernie's immense popularity gained during the election.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Jun '18 00:06
    Originally posted by @vivify
    You're right, it's not unreasonable.

    It's just that after nominating a black man followed by nominating a woman who ran against an independent, Democrats seemed like the party of new ideas, inclusive of all types of people, including independents. I think that spirit will take Democrats far. That's why it's a shame to see them now demand a type of ...[text shortened]... s policies, included largely because of Bernie's immense popularity gained during the election.
    Those are, admittedly, good points.

    Hard to say what Bernie would have done if the rule was in effect before last year's primary campaign. Perhaps he would have officially joined the party, perhaps some compromise could have been worked out, perhaps he would have decided not to run. We'll never know.

    I have my doubts Bernie will run in 2020 anyway; he'd be 79 years old on inauguration day 2021. He's a marvel, but no one escapes the effects of old age esp. in a position as stressful as POTUS. I also think the Dems would be well served to run a younger, progressive woman for the contrasts with Trump and the reality of his high disapproval ratings among females.
  14. Standard memberSoothfast
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    17 Jun '18 00:17
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

    "Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is a democratic socialist organization in the United States.
    DSA is a multi-tendency organization of democratic socialist, left-wing social democratic and
    labor-oriented members, often also affiliated with other political parties and/or organizati ...[text shortened]... as and Michael Harrington."

    Barbara Ehrenreich (a writer) is (or was) an activist in the DSA.
    I'm a card-carrying member!
  15. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    17 Jun '18 01:15
    Originally posted by @soothfast
    I'm a card-carrying member!
    Shocker.
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