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Debates Forum

  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Jun '18 15:16
    Nothing new out of South Africa.

    This really has become a common occurrence, but it is something that is not really covered well in the West.

    Jacob Zuma may have been in court on Friday afternoon, but his fleeting appearance in Durban would only end up playing second fiddle to a mass demonstration in his honour.

    Earlier on, we reported on the people who had shown up to support Zuma in court. Supra Mahumapelo, Hlaudi Motsoeneng and Andile Lungisa were all present to keep the former President company.

    Where do you even start with these? Ex-North West Premier Mahumapelo was forced to resign in disgrace following the corruption allegations levelled against him.

    Meanwhile, Motsoeneng drove SABC into the ground with his bizarre leadership of the broadcaster, and Lungisa is best known for smashing a jug over a fellow politician’s head during a sitting of local Parliament.

    “One bullet, one settler” chanted to Durban crowd
    If judging a person by the company they keep was an actual legal precedent, then Zuma would already be banged to rights. That was underlined by the actions of another speaker who took to the stage, and lead chants of “one bullet, one settler”.


    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/one-bullet-one-settler-zuma-durban/
  2. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
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    08 Jun '18 19:04
    Those mayates aren’t good enough shots for that.
  3. Joined
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    08 Jun '18 20:492 edits
    At my uni (UCT), "one settler, one bullet" is the motto for the Radical Fallist Pan-Africanist People's Organization of Azania, which is a group that runs for student council. Most black people (including my best friend, a radical black Muslim woman from Senegal) see them as far too extreme, despite being hugely critical of white racism themselves. They are a fringe group.

    In my degree, everyone is too united by the difficulty of the degree to care about black/white/green/pink/blue. We're all just there to help each get through the suffering to make better lives for ourselves and make sure none of us end up with slit wrists by the end. Most of my tutors are black. Most of my lecturers are black. Most people at my uni are black. Most people doing my degree with me are black and it's not a mainstream opinion to want to murder "settlers". (I do not consider myself a settler as I have not lived here for particularly long)

    A big part of overcoming racial barriers here in SA is just being kind to black people and showing you're human too. They expect us to be awful because historically we have been. Just be normal. At the end of the day, we're all human but it takes some engagement on behalf of white people. The effort has to come from us. Lots of white people here are in denial about what happened and prefer to just ignore the problem and hope all the black people and their problems will just blow away. They're our problems too and white people need to make an effort to reconcile, which has barely happened.

    There also exists this assumption amongst white South Africans (particularly Afrikaans people) that all white people must see the issue as they do. People have said virulently racist things in front of me.

    When I was on a holiday weekend in a small town called Betty's Bay last year (small town over the mountains from Cape Town; what Capetonians call "behind the iron curtain" ) the owner of the house I was renting popped in to pick up the keys on the last day. She asked me what I was doing with my life. I responded that I was studying at UCT, to which she said "Have the darkies been clubbing you this year? You should have gone to Stellenbosch." (Mostly white bubble university - detached from reality and quite racist) I was so shocked but also surprised that racism was so deeply entrenched that she felt it was okay to say that to someone who she doesn't know at all.

    Earlier this evening, one of my aunt's friends who recently moved from Pretoria (much more racist than Cape Town) told us that there were too many black people in Waterkloof these days and that it was bringing down prices. (Waterkloof is an upmarket area in Pretoria). It was an extremely uncomfortable awkward silence yet she showed no sign of acknowledging that she had upset the other people at the evening. It's taken as a given that we must all be racist.
  4. Joined
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    08 Jun '18 20:55
    Not everyone's a Nelson Mandela, endlessly forgiving and refusing to be angry over the continued servitude of their people.
  5. Zugzwang
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    08 Jun '18 20:58
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Nothing new out of South Africa.

    This really has become a common occurrence, but it is something that is not really covered well in the West.

    Jacob Zuma may have been in court on Friday afternoon, but his fleeting appearance in Durban would only end up playing second fiddle to a mass demonstration in his honour.

    Earlier on, we reported ...[text shortened]... et, one settler”.


    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/one-bullet-one-settler-zuma-durban/
    "Nothing new out of South Africa."
    --Philokalia

    "Ex Africa semper aliquid novi."
    --Pliny the Elder

    As Ash already has pointed out, Philokalia's wrong in insinuating that most or even
    many black people want to kill all white people in South Africa.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Jun '18 23:43
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Nothing new out of South Africa."
    --Philokalia

    "Ex Africa semper aliquid novi."
    --Pliny the Elder

    As Ash already has pointed out, Philokalia's wrong in insinuating that most or even
    many black people want to kill all white people in South Africa.
    Would you agree that the overwhelming majority of white people are also good and free from that sentiment?

    Why not show us how much you condemn these types of words?
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    08 Jun '18 23:47
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Not everyone's a Nelson Mandela, endlessly forgiving and refusing to be angry over the continued servitude of their people.
    This is exactly the sort of response that I want to elicit.

    So, tell me, Ash: are you sympathetic at all with the feelings of white people who are nationalistic and want to advance their cause?

    Or is your ability to dismiss and de-emphasize radical, violent nationalism reserved only for minorities?
  8. Joined
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    09 Jun '18 01:04
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    At my uni (UCT), "one settler, one bullet" is the motto for the Radical Fallist Pan-Africanist People's Organization of Azania, which is a group that runs for student council. Most black people (including my best friend, a radical black Muslim woman from Senegal) see them as far too extreme, despite being hugely critical of white racism themselves. They a ...[text shortened]... she had upset the other people at the evening. It's taken as a given that we must all be racist.
    So these people are black.

    They can't be racists and their actions are inherently righteous.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Jun '18 01:55
    Considering their Crimes against Humanity for almost 200 years, South African whites got a pretty good deal after that country was liberated from their tyranny. But if they thought they would be permanently entitled to a stranglehold over SA's economy and land they were delusional.
  10. Joined
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    09 Jun '18 02:03
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Considering their Crimes against Humanity for almost 200 years, South African whites got a pretty good deal after that country was liberated from their tyranny. But if they thought they would be permanently entitled to a stranglehold over SA's economy and land they were delusional.
    Your opinion is means nothing. You are a worthless whitey.
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    09 Jun '18 02:53
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Considering their Crimes against Humanity for almost 200 years, South African whites got a pretty good deal after that country was liberated from their tyranny. But if they thought they would be permanently entitled to a stranglehold over SA's economy and land they were delusional.
    Two questions...

    What were the crimes, specifically?

    What would it look liek?

    So they took land from the San people and the likes, and then they occupied that land and proceeded to govern it, cultivate it, and develop it as they saw fight, with very clear terms fo service...

    Then, I suppose, there would be issues with indentured servitude and slavery, right?

    So, what would these crimes merit?

    I also have a question... I am not a briliant legal mind, but could you tell me what a 23 year old white perosn, who never even lived during this time, owes to someone else bby vritue of who they are?

    To what extent can people exact vengeance from others?
  12. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    09 Jun '18 02:54
    Generally speaking, this is a very interesting topic in the sense that it allows us to see a lot of ambiguous statements just dangled out there that have no real meaning like Marauder's....

    "Oh, well, you know, they got off light."

    These things really need to be unpacked.

    It makes it sound like the black population would be justified having done something 'heavy,' and it is really curious what would be meant by 'heavy.'

    It sounds like there is just some general ambivalence toward the misery of others, and some shoulder shrugging toward whatever negative happens to them, even fi we are dealing with outright cries for genocide.
  13. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Jun '18 03:48
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    At my uni (UCT), "one settler, one bullet" is the motto for the Radical Fallist Pan-Africanist People's Organization of Azania, which is a group that runs for student council. Most black people (including my best friend, a radical black Muslim woman from Senegal) see them as far too extreme, despite being hugely critical of white racism themselves. They a ...[text shortened]... she had upset the other people at the evening. It's taken as a given that we must all be racist.
    What an extremely interesting and personal post.
    Thank you for sharing.

    You don’t hear much about normal South African life post-reconciliation.

    I get a general feeling that the people I know who live there (alas all as white as me.. or whiter; I’ve got quite the tan going... for a Scot) tend to not talk about these sorts of issues.

    And considering the history, one doesn’t feel too much like probing.
  14. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Jun '18 04:09
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Considering their Crimes against Humanity for almost 200 years, South African whites got a pretty good deal after that country was liberated from their tyranny. But if they thought they would be permanently entitled to a stranglehold over SA's economy and land they were delusional.
    Assigning guilt based on a persons race.

    Shows No1's other anti-racist spiels to be what they are i.e. empty bluster.
  15. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Jun '18 04:11
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Generally speaking, this is a very interesting topic in the sense that it allows us to see a lot of ambiguous statements just dangled out there that have no real meaning like Marauder's....

    "Oh, well, you know, they got off light."

    These things really need to be unpacked.

    It makes it sound like the black population would be justified hav ...[text shortened]... ward whatever negative happens to them, even fi we are dealing with outright cries for genocide.
    It is a very interesting topic.
    I hope we don’t mire it down in the usual name-calling manner.

    Why is it interesting?
    Well, apartheid and the racist motives behind it are a world wide phenomena; from race riots in the 80’s in England, to Israel, to US segregation laws which have gone, although the sentiments live on, to the re-rise of the populist right in Europe.
    Even Rwanda’s problems in the early 90’s stem from a form of apartheid.

    What makes it even more interesting is the truth and reconciliation thing they did when the apartheid regime fell.
    So instead of punishment, they attempted to force people to see what they did, take reaponsibility for their actions and basically forgive them.

    Obviously it’s interesting how that panned out, but my God, what a humane and progressive attempt at making a better world!

    It’s very easy to condemn, but ultimately we are products of our environment. And in that situation in those / these times, experimenting with such a tool can only be applauded.

    How it panned out? What are the lessons learned? I don’t think I’ve actually ever seen an evaluation of it.

    As for the direct question you ask.
    Yes. I think the world would have understood a vengeful black reaction. In fact, I’m pretty sure that’s what was expected.

    You can’t treat people like kaffers and not expect a backlash.

    Equally, I’m pretty sure there’s still a massive wealth gap in SA (although I’m not sure who’s holding the wealth at the moment) and that always breeds contempt, animosity and hatred.

    And like in Europe the wealth gap gives rise to nationalist groups who blame moslims, refugees, jews and whoever else can serve as a scapegoat, it’s obvious who the scapegoats are going to be in SA.
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