Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 29 Aug '09 18:19
    Schindler's list ends with Schindler regretting he kept his car and could've saved 10 more people, or traded his gold nazi pin to save another... and decades later they show actual people he saved paying tribute at his grave.

    Today the are still small extremist groups like the nazis before them looking for opportunities like severe economic disruptions / crisis to spread blame, hatred, and scapegoating.

    One of the most vulnerable targets today has been immigrants:


    http://www.adl.org/civil_rights/anti_immigrant/




    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ggdJrPGsXPqyjUzPF90Ob0aIPgSQD9ACADV80
  2. 30 Aug '09 13:39
    Originally posted by eljefejesus


    Today the are still small extremist groups like the nazis before them looking for opportunities like severe economic disruptions / crisis to spread blame, hatred, and scapegoating.
    You mean like a certain group that blamed Bush and the Republicans for the credit crisis and then used the oppurtunity of the credit crisis to instigate bail outs and "stimulus packages"?
  3. 30 Aug '09 14:43
    Originally posted by whodey
    You mean like a certain group that blamed Bush and the Republicans for the credit crisis and then used the oppurtunity of the credit crisis to instigate bail outs and "stimulus packages"?
    I thought that was Obama.
  4. 30 Aug '09 15:33
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Schindler's list ends with Schindler regretting he kept his car and could've saved 10 more people, or traded his gold nazi pin to save another... and decades later they show actual people he saved paying tribute at his grave.

    Today the are still small extremist groups like the nazis before them looking for opportunities like severe economic disruptio ...[text shortened]...



    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ggdJrPGsXPqyjUzPF90Ob0aIPgSQD9ACADV80
    Yes that is true, there is a lot of scapegoating, however, don't you think the illegals should be sent back?
  5. 30 Aug '09 18:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    You mean like a certain group that blamed Bush and the Republicans for the credit crisis and then used the oppurtunity of the credit crisis to instigate bail outs and "stimulus packages"?
    Some of them too, actually, yes!
  6. 30 Aug '09 18:24
    Originally posted by daniel58
    I thought that was Obama.
    He's a mainstream politician, I don't think he's going to do anything extreme if he wants to keep his respectable place in history... although I'm sure you're going to mention healthcare reform and who knows if they will change their plan to keep the costs down rather than dramatically increase the amount of benefits handed out to even more people.
  7. 30 Aug '09 18:26
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Yes that is true, there is a lot of scapegoating, however, don't you think the illegals should be sent back?
    No.

    There is undocumented migration all over the world for a reason, and that includes how much the government tries to artificially control people choices of who they hire and who they work with in a modern world full of technology and easy transportation and travel, etc.

    I say let people make their own economic decisions and simply the process and reduce costs and time wasted, people will maintain their value, but some protected groups like a union within a huge monopoly will not continue to rape their fellow countrymen with overpriced manual labor.
  8. 30 Aug '09 19:12
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    No.

    There is undocumented migration all over the world for a reason, and that includes how much the government tries to artificially control people choices of who they hire and who they work with in a modern world full of technology and easy transportation and travel, etc.

    I say let people make their own economic decisions and simply the process a ...[text shortened]... a huge monopoly will not continue to rape their fellow countrymen with overpriced manual labor.
    So why am I paying for illegal immigrants kid's too go to school?
  9. 30 Aug '09 19:37
    Originally posted by daniel58
    So why am I paying for illegal immigrants kid's too go to school?
    Wait a minute, the schools are already there, aren't they? The infrastructure, the land, and highest paid people like principles and superintendents are already there.

    What do the additional small costs get you in terms of people who will add value to this economy? A day laborer like his father before him or somebody that will add even more value to society including to your own bottom line as a customer of more of your company's products and whos spending seeps throughout the economy? You either invest in a better future with better people and neighbors to contribute more tax revenue themselves (as well as their children) or you like your tax dollar save a penny and then in 10 years you already see lower value/returns. Investing in other people is about the best investment you can make in your own future.

    As the Supreme Court has said, there is no public interest in creating an underclass.
  10. 31 Aug '09 00:37
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Wait a minute, the schools are already there, aren't they? The infrastructure, the land, and highest paid people like principles and superintendents are already there.

    What do the additional small costs get you in terms of people who will add value to this economy? A day laborer like his father before him or somebody that will add even more value to ...[text shortened]... ture.

    As the Supreme Court has said, there is no public interest in creating an underclass.
    Not small costs at all. Schools end up overspending on bilingual ed, dual immersion programs, interpreters for assemblies, PTA meetings, importing of teachers and on and on. WE have interpreters at these meetings interpreting for parents who then fail to show up for these meetings. There is no interest indeed in creating an underclass at all. They arrive as a ready made underclass, fail to learn English because of bilingual ed, send most of their money back home and let their countries of origin off the hook. It is quite sad when countries like Mexico get more money from immigrants sending money home than their GNP. What happens with the money saved? To the pockets of corrupt politicians. Mexico will never improve the lot of its people with the ready made escape valve of sending people to the USA. Mexico even prints pamphlets of how to become an illegal alien all the while failing to provide infrastructure, basic services, good sanitation, education and on and on. We do not provide bilingual ed for Hindi, Bengali, Urdu, Mandarin Chinese, and many others. Guess what? They do substantially better then Hispanic immigrants and better than USA born students! No one hates immigrants but a bigoted few, but it's OK for immigrants to hate us. My wife was verbally attacked by teens waving Mexican flags in her face and calling her names simply for not being Hispanic. Neither she nor I have ever offended an immigrant. Immigrant kids frequently purposely throw trash on our lawn, egged my car, tried to break into our house, trash the neighborhood with dirty diapers, get pregnant before 15 then get their kids on CHIP, WIC, TANF and other taxpayer services. They then drop out of school and flip burgers. Indeed no one seems to want to create an underclass but themselves.
  11. 31 Aug '09 02:48
    Actually we bend over backwards for immigrants. Most phone systems, banks, etc ask in Spanish to press one if you need Spanish. Not exactly the workings of a hateful society. Christmas programs in Spanish, Mariachi bands at schools, and on and on. What do we get as thanks? Mexican flags in our faces, people in Azteca stadium yelling Osama, Osama, drug wars, home invasions, increased drunk driving. Look at DOJ stats on criminality. Many of these people you say cost the USA nothing commit a disproportionate percentage of crime relative to their numbers!
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    31 Aug '09 02:55
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    What do we get as thanks?
    You don't sound like the kind of person people are inclined to thank. Perhaps, with the vast majority being honest decent hard-working people, and with so many being Christians, maybe they are not impressed by your profoundly unchristian, rancorous, broad brush poisonous comments.
  13. 31 Aug '09 07:20
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    Not small costs at all. Schools end up overspending on bilingual ed, dual immersion programs, interpreters for assemblies, PTA meetings, importing of teachers and on and on. WE have interpreters at these meetings interpreting for parents who then fail to show up for these meetings. There is no interest indeed in creating an underclass at all. They arriv ...[text shortened]... of school and flip burgers. Indeed no one seems to want to create an underclass but themselves.
    Wow, you spit out so many falsehoods and lies against immigrants that it's sickeningly racist.

    Then you expect me to believe that you and your wife are innocent bystanders getting harassed for being white? Maybe to you being white is the same as being racist, but that's not what most people I've met are like, just the bigotting, lie-spreading, immigrant hating extremists like you.

    All the things you said are gossip, and no matter how many times you hear it or repeat it, gossip is still gossip. The facts speak for themselves, the second generation of immigrants learns English (and too often forgets Spanish, which should just fill you with such joy if you were serious about your attitudes and not just trying to excuse your racist feelings).

    If you are against bilingual education, fine, I say keep it.

    However, with every minority you see different levels of success. You mention these ethnic groups and pretend they're universally more successful... are you out of your mind? Have you BEEN to China town? Are you just racists, or stupid and racist? You cannot possibly hold all these believes and not be unwilling to face facts. Get preganant before 15? Are you seriously so diluted as to say that that is even near half of Mexican immigrants' story? That is racist. Even if you look back at US history you will see worse stats at a certain point than Mexicans today, Mexico is merely working towards catching up. They drop out of school and flip burgers? Who are you talking about, you own child I hope, and I hope he's a Mexican, and that he has your enviable personality.
  14. 31 Aug '09 07:26
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    Actually we bend over backwards for immigrants. Most phone systems, banks, etc ask in Spanish to press one if you need Spanish. Not exactly the workings of a hateful society. Christmas programs in Spanish, Mariachi bands at schools, and on and on. What do we get as thanks? Mexican flags in our faces, people in Azteca stadium yelling Osama, Osama, drug w ...[text shortened]... ay cost the USA nothing commit a disproportionate percentage of crime relative to their numbers!
    Not that your stupid comment requires a retort, but just to counter your own ignorant post, here is the reality that immigration correlates with lower crime:'''http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/080318-immigration-crime.html


    prevailing wisdom holds that the concentration of immigrants and an influx of foreigners drive up crime rates.

    However, Sampson shows that concentrated immigration predicts lower rates of violence across communities in Chicago, with the relationship strongest in poor neighborhoods.

    Not only does immigration appear to be "protective" against violence in poverty areas, violence was significantly lower among Mexican-Americans compared to blacks and whites. Sampson refers to this as the "Latino Paradox," whereby Hispanic Americans do better on a range of social indicators — including propensity to violence — than one would expect, given their socioeconomic disadvantages.

    Sampson’s analysis also revealed that first-generation immigrants were 45 percent less likely to commit violence than third-generation Americans. Controlling for immigrant generation even narrowed the violence gap between whites and blacks in Chicago by 14 percent.

    "The pattern of immigrant generational status and lower crime rates is not restricted to Latinos; it extends to help explain white–black differences as well," Sampson said. "We’re so used to thinking about immigrant assimilation that we’ve failed to fully appreciate how immigrants themselves shape their host society."

    Immigration is therefore not just a Hispanic issue; although little noticed, increasing foreign-born diversity among blacks (e.g., from the West Indies and Africa) is associated with lower crime even within segregated black communities.

    Sampson’s arguments are supported at the national level as well. Significant immigration growth — including by illegal aliens — occurred in the mid-1990s, peaking at the end of the decade. During this time, the national homicide rate plunged. Crime dropped even in immigration hot spots, such as Los Angeles (where it dropped 45 percent overall), San Jose, Dallas and Phoenix.

    Reasons commonly cited for the apparent paradox of first generation immigrants, especially Mexicans, are motivation to work, ambition and a desire not to be deported, characteristics that predispose them to low crime. Sampson also argues that contemporary immigrants tend to come from a multitude of cultures around the world where violence isn’t rewarded as a strategy for establishing reputation or preserving honor, as in American "street culture."

    "In today’s society," Sampson said, "immigration and the increasing cultural diversity that accompanies it generate the sort of conflicts of culture that lead not to increased crime but nearly the opposite."
  15. 31 Aug '09 11:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Not that your stupid comment requires a retort, but just to counter your own ignorant post, here is the reality that immigration correlates with lower crime:'''http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/080318-immigration-crime.html


    prevailing wisdom holds that the concentration of immigrants and an influx of foreigners drive up crime rates.

    However, conflicts of culture that lead not to increased crime but nearly the opposite."
    You should come see a before and after of my neighborhood then send the pictures to your academics. All that is absolute bull. Most immigrants are indeed honest, hardworking, but they bring with them a great number of people who are not and commit crimes disproprtiantely to their percentage of the population.

    As usual your only argument is that any one opposing illegal immigration is racist. You know why, because you have no further argument. Our school district is bankrupt because of the influx of illegal immigrants. Don't delude yourself. When you double a student population costs go up. What kind of garbage argument is that the infrasturcture is already there? Then why explode the number of schools being built?

    Where I live about 30 kids get squiahed by cars backing up every year. 28-29 are Hispanic. Judging by the double surnames they are immigrants.