Originally posted by eagles54
How do you teach people not to have a violent mentality? The people that would most benefit most from that are not listening. A person that will commit murder will find a way, rest assured.
I said it would make it easier to teach people not to have a violent mentality.
For example, telling a kid, "guns are designed to kill and have no other purpose". Then tell them that killing is wrong. Then buy them a gun as a birthday present. This would certainly cause confusion to the kid.
I am not saying that guns are the only thing that cause this problem, it is a combination of a number of things, but they do contribute.
Originally posted by lauseyWell, where I live many people use guns to kill game and put food on the table. Should they be made to give up their guns too?
For example, telling a kid, "guns are designed to kill and have no other purpose". Then tell them that killing is wrong. Then buy them a gun as a birthday present. This would certainly cause confusion to the kid.
I am not saying that guns are the only thing that cause this problem, it is a combination of a number of things, but they do contribute.
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Originally posted by eagles54And that is exactly the problem. I don't want to see people punished who have done nothing wrong. Taking guns away from everyone accomplishes that. It would be like my neighbor being involved in a car accident because he's drunk. So the police take away his drivers license. Then, since we both own cars and have a license, and there's a chance I might drink and drive too, they take mine away.
Well, where I live many people use guns to kill game and put food on the table. Should they be made to give up their guns too?
Seems rather draconian.
Originally posted by eagles54
Well, where I live many people use guns to kill game and put food on the table. Should they be made to give up their guns too?
You can tell them if you want, but it is still currently their right to hunt using guns. Hence me saying in an earlier post that it isn't currently pragmatic to remove guns from the planet. I will not force the issue, just encourage it. I was saying that in my view, no guns would make this world more ideal.
If they were to choose not to hunt using guns (it is still their choice, after all), then it would be leading towards this ideal. People were getting food long before guns existed.
Originally posted by lauseyI'm not trying to be cute but, people still killed their food with other, far less effective weapons before guns came along. Is it better for animals to suffer by those methods?
If they were to choose not to hunt using guns (it is still their choice, after all), then it would be leading towards this ideal. People were getting food long before guns existed.
Originally posted by eagles54
I'm not trying to be cute but, people still killed their food with other, far less effective weapons before guns came along. Is it better for animals to suffer by those methods?
Become vegetarian. 😉 Only joking, I eat meat myself.
Regarding primative methods of slaughter. Animals kill each other for food in a not very nice way.
Animal rights is another debate and I do see your point. Will have to think about this. You are right that hunting with guns is by far the most effective method that does not cause too much suffering.
How about a compromise? Only hunting rifles allowed? 😉
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Originally posted by RagnorakHere's the text of the Second Amendment:
The right to bear arms is as absurd as it is to arm bears.
Hey Eagles, in all the countries where Joe Soap isn't allowed to bear arms, why haven't the nutters gone off to make bombs to bring into school?
D
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/
Here are the definitions of militia:
1. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=militia
As I understand it, the idea is that a government which becomes corrupt often begins consolidation of tyrannical power by stripping the people of weaponry such they they cannot defend their own interests. As the USA came into being by exactly such rebellion, this was clearly an important issue to the Founding Fathers.
Of course, today this doesn't seem like much of a danger. However, the US has only been around a couple hundred years. Things change over millenia...at some point this may become an issue again.
Another possible intention of the 2nd Amendment might be that in an emergency a draft or emergency volunteer militia might become necessary in which the government cannot arm the citizens on short notice. This is not an issue now, but who knows what will happen in the future? This position is less defensible than the first I think.
Originally posted by RagnorakAre you saying that the mentally unstable in those countries that do not allow personal weapons to be owned do not take innocent life by other methods?
Hey Eagles, in all the countries where Joe Soap isn't allowed to bear arms, why haven't the nutters gone off to make bombs to bring into school?
D
I don't like handguns. I've always viewed them as an invention that was designed to kill other humans. I don't see a need for this.
I live in the country many miles from town. I own a rifle, it is there for my protection. Wild animals, crazy molesters, anything that may arise. I don't like my rifle, I would rather live in a world that did'nt require it. That world does'nt exist yet. In a world bereft of crime or wild animals, I would happily give up my rifle. I have fired it twice, to make sure it works. I don't hunt with it, nor do I practice shoot.
A rifle is to mean only a means of self protection. Living where I do and being home alone in the middle of nowhere when my hubby is at work puts me in a dangerous spot if someone with ill intentions were to approach my property. If you could personally garunte my safety in this at all times I would not need it. Untill this world can garuntee me these things I will continue to own my rifle.
Nyxie
Originally posted by eagles54You seem to be suggesting that only mentally unstable people murder. This is not true, the vast majority of people with mental health conditions are more a danger to themselves than they could ever be to others. By far and away the most murders are carried out by normal sane people. There is a culture of blame for people with mental health issues and it is wrong and it is ignorant of the reality to the extent that it furthers the segregation of people who need help.
Are you saying that the mentally unstable in those countries that do not allow personal weapons to be owned do not take innocent life by other methods?
Originally posted by eagles54What Starrman says, plus I refer u to a comment I made here ages ago...
Are you saying that the mentally unstable in those countries that do not allow personal weapons to be owned do not take innocent life by other methods?
http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=14127&page=3
and also my post here...
http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=14127&page=4
The downside of lazily not writing a new post and referring you to an old thread, is that I used the arm bears joke there as well. 😞
D
Originally posted by NyxieGood for you, Nyxie. Do everything you can to avoid becoming a victim. But don't dismiss handguns so quickly. They are designed for close range self-defense from humans and humans are easily the most dangerous animals in the world. And in almost all cases the only time you have a legally justifiably right to defend yourself with a gun is at very close range.
I don't like handguns. I've always viewed them as an invention that was designed to kill other humans. I don't see a need for this.
I live in the country many miles from town. I own a rifle, it is there for my protection. Wild animals, crazy molesters, anything that may arise. I don't like my rifle, I would rather live in a world that did'nt require i ...[text shortened]... ed it. Untill this world can garuntee me these things I will continue to own my rifle.
Nyxie