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  1. Standard memberuzless
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    08 Apr '18 21:09
    This man explains why women aren't paid the same as men since they tend to go into lower paying jobs and he explains why they go into lower paying jobs.

    The man who’s fighting girls’ ‘mathematophobia’
    University of Toronto assistant professor Ismael Mourifié teaches economics but he’s made his name researching why more women don’t pursue jobs in STEM. Some of the answers may be simpler than we think.


    https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html
  2. Standard memberuzless
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    08 Apr '18 23:10
    Originally posted by @uzless
    This man explains why women aren't paid the same as men since they tend to go into lower paying jobs and he explains why they go into lower paying jobs.

    [b]The man who’s fighting girls’ ‘mathematophobia’
    University of Toronto assistant professor Ismael Mourifié teaches economics but he’s made his name researching why more women don’t pursue jobs in STEM. ...[text shortened]... https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html
    how does this get 2 rec's down? Clearly at least 2 of you never read it.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    09 Apr '18 05:04
    Originally posted by @uzless
    This man explains why women aren't paid the same as men since they tend to go into lower paying jobs and he explains why they go into lower paying jobs.

    [b]The man who’s fighting girls’ ‘mathematophobia’
    University of Toronto assistant professor Ismael Mourifié teaches economics but he’s made his name researching why more women don’t pursue jobs in STEM. ...[text shortened]... https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html
    Interesting article. I hope he finds a solution.
  4. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Apr '18 06:16
    Give is a bloody summary.
  5. Germany
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    09 Apr '18 06:46
    Originally posted by @uzless
    how does this get 2 rec's down? Clearly at least 2 of you never read it.
    I gave it a thumbs down, because it is not true that the fact that there are disproportionately few women in STEM-fields in North America explains the gender pay gap; moreover, the article doesn't even make that claim. Did you read the article?
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Apr '18 08:40
    Originally posted by @uzless
    This man explains why women aren't paid the same as men since they tend to go into lower paying jobs and he explains why they go into lower paying jobs.

    [b]The man who’s fighting girls’ ‘mathematophobia’
    University of Toronto assistant professor Ismael Mourifié teaches economics but he’s made his name researching why more women don’t pursue jobs in STEM. ...[text shortened]... https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html
    From the article:

    Women working in STEM often end up in lower-paying technical jobs as opposed to professional roles and earn only 82 per cent of what men do. So women, fearing both wage discrimination and a glass ceiling in STEM workplaces dominated by men, opt to pursue other career paths.

    Kinda hard to see how getting more women into STEM fields would eliminate the gender pay gap when the STEM fields have a significant gender pay gap of their own.
  7. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Apr '18 08:581 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Give is a bloody summary.
    Here's a summary I lifted from the link you posted:

    "Yes, men do earn more than women on average, but not that much more when they work the same job and they have similar experience and abilities. Take a look at what PayScale has discovered about the gender pay gap"

    What does "not much more" mean? About 1-4% (percentages also lifted from the link you posted)
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Apr '18 09:10
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Here's a summary I lifted from the link you posted:

    "Yes, men do earn more than women on average, [b]but not that much more
    when they work the same job and they have similar experience and abilities. Take a look at what PayScale has discovered about the gender pay gap"

    What does "not much more" mean? About 1-4% (percentages also lifted from the link you posted)[/b]
    But they aren't as likely to get the "same job" even when they have similar experience. And when they do, the pay gap widens:

    Over the course of their career, men move into higher level roles at significantly higher rates than women. By mid-career, men are 70 percent more likely to be in executive roles than women. By late career, men are 142 percent more likely to be in VP or C-suite roles.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What’s more, the gender pay gap only grows for women who manage to rise to the highest levels of career achievement. While the controlled gender wage gap starts at 98.3 cents for individual contributors, it widens to 94.4 cents for executives.

    https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap
  9. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Apr '18 09:292 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    But they aren't as likely to get the "same job" even when they have similar experience. And when they do, the pay gap widens:

    Over the course of their career, men move into higher level roles at significantly higher rates than women. By mid-career, men are 70 percent more likely to be in executive roles than women. By late career, men are 142 percent ...[text shortened]... butors, it widens to 94.4 cents for executives.

    https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap
    "How to Lie with Statistics" did you read it yet No1..

    The stats show that women with similar skills in similar roles earn within 1-4% the salary of men.

    Or are you going to pursue shavs and KNs soon dropped hypothesis that businesses actually pay more for men, less qualified men that is, for the hell of it. On the one hand the employer is a cold hard money grabbing machine but on the other they fling money away needlessly on more expensive less experienced men.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Apr '18 10:40
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    "How to Lie with Statistics" did you read it yet No1..

    The stats show that women with similar skills in similar roles earn within 1-4% the salary of men.

    Or are you going to pursue shavs and KNs soon dropped hypothesis that businesses actually pay more for men, less qualified men that is, for the hell of it. On the one hand the employer is a cold har ...[text shortened]... achine but on the other they fling money away needlessly on more expensive less experienced men.
    And the stats show that women with similar experience don't get promoted as much. Your "lying" claim is a pretty clear lie of its own.

    Why should we presume that men in businesses are any less prone to gender stereotypes than anybody else? Especially when the evidence is so clear they are not?
  11. Germany
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    09 Apr '18 14:55
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    "How to Lie with Statistics" did you read it yet No1..

    The stats show that women with similar skills in similar roles earn within 1-4% the salary of men.

    Or are you going to pursue shavs and KNs soon dropped hypothesis that businesses actually pay more for men, less qualified men that is, for the hell of it. On the one hand the employer is a cold har ...[text shortened]... achine but on the other they fling money away needlessly on more expensive less experienced men.
    The existence of an adjusted gender pay gap implies that employers on average pay more for men than for equally qualified women. I did not "drop" the "hypothesis" that a gender pay gap exists - in fact, it is supported by an overwhelming amount of empirical evidence.

    Read more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
  12. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Apr '18 20:11
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The existence of an adjusted gender pay gap implies that employers on average pay more for men than for equally qualified women. I did not "drop" the "hypothesis" that a gender pay gap exists - in fact, it is supported by an overwhelming amount of empirical evidence.

    Read more:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
    I don't often do this, but there are two threads running in parallel:

    Quoting my good self:

    "Is there a gap? Yes there is.

    If it were .001% difference would that still be a gap? Yes it would.

    What do you want to do about it?"


    Using the stats posted by (quoting zahlanzi here) "sexist ashole finds a site that confirms his prejudice" Shavixmir we find that the difference when comparing like with like is quite small, so small that we can confidently assume that some women are on the the other side i.e.getting paid more than men

    Both Shav and No1 avoid the hell out of this question "What would you like to do about correcting this relatively small difference?" Given that some women are getting paid more than men and some men are getting paid more than women, would you like to regulate this in some way so that everyone got paid precisely the same. What shape would that regulation take, who would be excepted?

    I would say there are millions of reasons why one employee might be paid more than another employee, any regulation would need to be able to cover those million different situations.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Apr '18 21:05
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    I don't often do this, but there are two threads running in parallel:

    Quoting my good self:

    "Is there a gap? Yes there is.

    If it were .001% difference would that still be a gap? Yes it would.

    What do you want to do about it?"


    Using the stats posted by (quoting zahlanzi here)[i] "sexist ashole finds a site that confirms his prejudice"[/i ...[text shortened]... ther employee, any regulation would need to be able to cover those million different situations.
    The fact that you think other people are obliged to answer your loaded, dishonest question is pretty amusing. I have shown that the issues concerning the gender pay gap go far beyond the difference in pay for the same jobs (particularly discrimination in promotion and hiring of well paying jobs) but you seem to think you can just ignore these. Debate doesn't work that way; you're going to have to concede that the issue isn't as simple as you want to make it and that remedial measures are going to have to address the whole problem, not just the small part you keep pretending is the entirety of it.
  14. Germany
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    09 Apr '18 21:13
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    I don't often do this, but there are two threads running in parallel:

    Quoting my good self:

    "Is there a gap? Yes there is.

    If it were .001% difference would that still be a gap? Yes it would.

    What do you want to do about it?"


    Using the stats posted by (quoting zahlanzi here)[i] "sexist ashole finds a site that confirms his prejudice"[/i ...[text shortened]... ther employee, any regulation would need to be able to cover those million different situations.
    Let's first straighten out whether or not there is, in your view (and in agreement with reality) a significant gender pay gap even when adjusted for the level of the positions, qualifications etc.

    Once we agree on this aspect of reality, we can ask ourselves if it's something we should address by legislation.
  15. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Apr '18 21:31
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Let's first straighten out whether or not there is, in your view (and in agreement with reality) a significant gender pay gap even when adjusted for the level of the positions, qualifications etc.

    Once we agree on this aspect of reality, we can ask ourselves if it's something we should address by legislation.
    I don't believe there should be any remedial action (which I'm assuming is euphemism for goobermints iron fist) whatever the gap is and however it is measured. I asked repeatedly what would be an acceptable statistical discrepancy, that was the point of the .001% is a gap example, is it as simple as (quoting shav here) "There's a gap, end of"?
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