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  1. Zugzwang
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    07 Oct '15 00:15
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/piketty-south-africa-inequality-nelson-mandela-lecture

    "'Black economic empowerment has failed': Piketty on South African inequality"

    "I think it's fair to say that black economic empowerment strategies, which
    were mostly based on *voluntary market transactions* ... were not that
    successful in spreading wealth."
    --Thomas Piketty
  2. The Catbird's Seat
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    07 Oct '15 16:31
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/piketty-south-africa-inequality-nelson-mandela-lecture

    "'Black economic empowerment has failed': Piketty on South African inequality"

    "I think it's fair to say that black economic empowerment strategies, which
    were mostly based on *voluntary market transactions* ... were not that
    successful in spreading wealth."
    --Thomas Piketty
    Piketty's Capital in the Twentieth Century is torturously long and boring. In almost every section, he admits that despite the massive data he collected, it isn't enough to support his ideas, and that he could be wrong.

    I suspect that his notions on South Africa are similarly flawed, in that freedom and empowerment haven't been there long enough, and much of the population isn't prepared to take advantage of the opportunities. Altering the culture of a nation doesn't happen overnight.
  3. Subscriberkmax87
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    07 Oct '15 16:37
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/piketty-south-africa-inequality-nelson-mandela-lecture

    "'Black economic empowerment has failed': Piketty on South African inequality"

    "I think it's fair to say that black economic empowerment strategies, which
    were mostly based on *voluntary market transactions* ... were not that
    successful in spreading wealth."
    --Thomas Piketty
    I think his observations on formal equality and practical equality seen through the prism of wealth concentration in France post 1789 underlines an important facet that gets lost in any debate on sustainable society. I can see his proposals for transparency and calls for taxation on wealth going down like a lead balloon among the libertarian stormtroopers.
  4. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    07 Oct '15 17:231 edit
    Under capitalism, the poor are typically required by law to pay rent. Being homeless is generally illegal. This is not "voluntary market transactions" this is forcing the weak to pay tribute to those who are already wealthy.

    French Revolution Song
    YouTube
  5. Joined
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    07 Oct '15 17:46
    http://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming

    Due to globalization and technology, there is an increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer individuals throughout the world. It is very evident in the U.S. where a rapidly shrinking educated middle class is slowing down economic growth. People with money in their pockets, who do not need public assistance to survive even when they are employed, create jobs by their power/ability to purchase goods and services and pay taxes, which develop and maintain the infrastructure. Companies do not create jobs unless there are people able and willing to purchase their products and services. The role of government should be to create a healthy economic environment through minimum wages, easy access to education, universal access to health care, infrastructure and rules and regs that allow capitalism to prosper along with workers. In every civilization, when the gap between the haves and have nots gets to a certain point, there is always a violent collapse with the masses rebelling. The above TED talk is quite good.
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
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    08 Oct '15 00:032 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Piketty's Capital in the Twentieth Century is torturously long and boring. In almost every section, he admits that despite the massive data he collected, it isn't enough to support his ideas, and that he could be wrong.

    I suspect that his notions on South Africa are similarly flawed, in that freedom and empowerment haven't been there long enough, and ...[text shortened]... take advantage of the opportunities. Altering the culture of a nation doesn't happen overnight.
    What an idiot you are to misread Piketty in such an obvious manner and fail to accept correction when this is pointed out to you. If you find it boring that must be because it is over your head. You ought to find it rivetting as most serious people have done, because it is radical and challenges the entire field of economics, left or right.

    Piketty objects to the failure of economists to gather and analyse empirical data in order to test their theories in accordance with the methods of social science. He has invested his career to building up as much as possible of the type of data required for serious empirical research. He constantly bemoans its limitations and continually adopts the scientific method of challenging evidence and testing propositions.

    His ideas are not flawed. They are empirically based and open to investigation in accordance with the scientific method, which he invites. Because his findings to date are so robust, the best the mainstream economists can do is to use rhetorical tricks and misrepresentation to defend their ideology against such terrible assaults. The fact is though that their theories, notably those of your pal Mises, are based entirely on unsupported speculation, routinely fly in the face of empirical evidence and serve an entirely unjustified ideological purpose. Modern economics is a mess, it has been brought to its knees in the 2008 crash, and you like the other neoliberals are just too comfortable in your stupidity to tolerate the challenge he poses to your lies and lazy assumptions.
  7. SubscriberWajoma
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    08 Oct '15 03:131 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    What an idiot you are to misread Piketty in such an obvious manner and fail to accept correction when this is pointed out to you. If you find it boring that must be because it is over your head. You ought to find it rivetting as most serious people have done, .
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-summers-most-unread-book-is-1404417569

    The worlds' most unread book, and the winner is.....

    A new term enters the language. The Piketty index.
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    08 Oct '15 08:352 edits
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-summers-most-unread-book-is-1404417569

    The worlds' most unread book, and the winner is.....

    A new term enters the language. The Piketty index.
    It's an academic economics and social science book, replete with data and its analysis, not a comic. It was never intended for a mass readership and the sales stunned Piketty as much as anyone else. They reflect its importance. You are unlikely to get far given your poor comprehension of posts on this forum. Start with something closer to your level: I suggest Henny Penny. YouTube

    Incidentally, I have been reading some serious non fiction on Kindle and it is horrible. I really need hard copy editions, because with such books one tends to skim back and forth a lot rather than reading through in a linear fashion. I would be surprised if Kindle readers were representative of those seriously interested in reading Piketty.
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Oct '15 12:35
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Under capitalism, the poor are typically required by law to pay rent. Being homeless is generally illegal. This is not "voluntary market transactions" this is forcing the weak to pay tribute to those who are already wealthy.

    French Revolution Song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXsZbkt0yqo
    "RENT" in the 18th and 19th centuries had quite a different meaning than it does today, when a landlord provides housing for people that can't afford to buy it, or who choose to rent to save money.

    Not all landlords are wealthy. Typically, in many big cities, homes are multi unit buildings in which the landlord resides, and rents the other units to people who may later do the same thing. During my childhood, my Dad bought a two family flat, and rented the downstairs to another family. He was hardly wealthy. The property later was sold allowing his a decent retirement.

    If a person is ambitious enough to own multiple buildings or large apartment buildings, and make a business of providing housing for less ambitious people, that is a bad thing? No more so than a farmer growing his own food, and selling the surplus.
  10. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Oct '15 12:45
    Originally posted by finnegan
    What an idiot you are to misread Piketty in such an obvious manner and fail to accept correction when this is pointed out to you. If you find it boring that must be because it is over your head. You ought to find it rivetting as most serious people have done, because it is radical and challenges the entire field of economics, left or right.

    Piketty obje ...[text shortened]... fortable in your stupidity to tolerate the challenge he poses to your lies and lazy assumptions.
    No sir. I read and annotated all of Piketty's book, but I don't worship at the alter of anyone. I can respect Piketty because after presenting his voluminous data, he concedes that it just isn't enough to justify his leanings as findings.

    It was riveting, and it is radical, but it is definitely not over my head. Challenging, and making a challenge stick are two different things. To weak minds, like yours, who already lean to Piketty's view, or further left, he is heroic. He's just a man, a man with an idea, which he admits isn't proven by his enormous collection of data. Do you want me to cite his confessions by page #?
  11. The Catbird's Seat
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    08 Oct '15 12:56
    Originally posted by finnegan
    It's an academic economics and social science book, replete with data and its analysis, not a comic. It was never intended for a mass readership and the sales stunned Piketty as much as anyone else. They reflect its importance. You are unlikely to get far given your poor comprehension of posts on this forum. Start with something closer to your level: I ...[text shortened]... urprised if Kindle readers were representative of those seriously interested in reading Piketty.
    I disagree, on the disadvantage of reading on Kindle type devices. First I can and do carry a Kindle device everywhere, my phone.

    Second, with each of my Kindle devices, I am able to not only read, backtrack if I wish, but also annotate in a clear fashion, instead of pasting post it notes to pages as in those good old days. Then I am enabled to read my notes on a chapter, in sequence and see if they still make sense, or if they are answered by the author further on.

    It's an academic economics and social science book, replete with data and its analysis, not a comic. It was never intended for a mass readership and the sales stunned Piketty as much as anyone else. They reflect its importance.

    I read academic text books all the time. When in college (as an adult) I found numerous errors in text books which I reported to my instructor, and which he confirmed were in fact errors both of fact and conclusion.

    Your hysterical rants against those with differing opinions speaks more to your inability to read than to those you accuse. Irwin Schiff has a nice little picture book on economics for you. It is simple, but true.
  12. Standard memberfinnegan
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    08 Oct '15 20:471 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    No sir. I read and annotated all of Piketty's book, but I don't worship at the alter of anyone. I can respect Piketty because after presenting his voluminous data, he concedes that it just isn't enough to justify his leanings as findings.

    It was riveting, and it is radical, but it is definitely not over my head. Challenging, and making a challenge st ...[text shortened]... n't proven by his enormous collection of data. Do you want me to cite his confessions by page #?
    Yes do tell me which of Piketty's key findings you think should be discredited because of the data.
  13. Cape Town
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    08 Oct '15 21:17
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "'Black economic empowerment has failed': Piketty on South African inequality"
    I think it is not fair to say so. It is true that there is still plenty of race biased inequality in South Africa and likely will be for a long time to come. In addition not all Black Economic Empowerment strategies may have had as much effect as originally intended. But they have had some effect and I do not think labelling them a failure is fair.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    08 Oct '15 21:50
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I think it is not fair to say so. It is true that there is still plenty of race biased inequality in South Africa and likely will be for a long time to come. In addition not all Black Economic Empowerment strategies may have had as much effect as originally intended. But they have had some effect and I do not think labelling them a failure is fair.
    Data data data
    What are the facts? what is the evidence? Why does nobody but Piketty care about evidence?
  15. Subscriberkmax87
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    08 Oct '15 23:37
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Data data data
    What are the facts? what is the evidence? Why does nobody but Piketty care about evidence?
    Who in debates ever let the facts get in the way of a good story?
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