@no1marauder saidThat’s up to Putin and your lying when you pretend otherwise all he has to do is retreat to a defensive line in the Donbas and cease his continued murder of Ukrainian civilians by bombardment. Then everyone can take a breath and see what is and isn’t acceptable to both sides but the idea of pressuring Kyiv whilst it’s citizens are being murdered in their beds is a very sick proposal.
Propaganda isn't a plan. But you don't have one of those, do you or at least one that avoids tens of thousands or more deaths and massive economic and human suffering.
@no1marauder saidAs for me , I just want the Russian pigdogs to leave the Ukraine entirely . A plus would be if they stopped seizing small increments of territory from Georgia .
Again, you seem to be under the impression that ceaselessly lying about my position is a valid debating tactic. It is not.
You don't want a negotiated settlement; you dream about a complete military defeat of Russia that isn't going to happen. In the meantime, you are quite happy to accept all the death, misery and economic suffering this war is causing in bloodthirsty pursuit of that fantasy.
Are you suggesting that part of the Ukraine be ceded to Russia so we can achieve "peace in our time " ? And maybe we can absolve them of all guilt in war crimes . Maybe we should consider sending Russia reparations for the inconvenience we have caused them . Or maybe a sincere apology .
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@caissad4 saidWell yes basically according to No1s peace plan Russia gets the Donbas, Crimea and probably the south coast of Ukraine but it also gets to veto the remnant of Ukraine from joining any defence pacts, you know in case he wants to invade them again, Oh yeah I nearly forgot nato has to abandon the other front line states like Poland and the Czech Republic.
As for me , I just want the Russian pigdogs to leave the Ukraine entirely . A plus would be if they stopped seizing small increments of territory from Georgia .
Are you suggesting that part of the Ukraine be ceded to Russia so we can achieve "peace in our time " ? And maybe we can absolve them of all guilt in war crimes . Maybe we should consider sending Russia reparations for the inconvenience we have caused them . Or maybe a sincere apology .
That’ll teach Putin to invade a defenceless neighbour, he won’t try that again in a hurry 😉
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@kevcvs57 saidThat's something you invented, not my "plan". Ukraine wouldn't have to cede anything that the People of the area didn't want "ceded". It also would merely have to restore its constitutional guarantees of not joining any military alliances but this time with solid security guarantees including a peace keeping force if necessary.
Well yes basically according to No1s peace plan Russia gets the Donbas, Crimea and probably the south coast of Ukraine but it also gets to veto the remnant of Ukraine from joining any defence pacts, you know in case he wants to invade them again, Oh yeah I nearly forgot nato has to abandon the other front line states like Poland and the Czech Republic.
That’ll teach Putin to invade a defenceless neighbour, he won’t try that again in a hurry 😉
I never proposed NATO "abandoning front line States", so basically you're just making that up. You do that a lot.
Your wish to somehow punish Russia is childish and not worth the death, misery and worldwide economic suffering every day of the war causes. Sure, it would be nice if Russia withdrew all its troops, apologized and paid massive reparations but that is a dream, not a policy goal. You and the other warmongers are willing to destroy the Ukraine in order to save it apparently.
@caissad4 saidTell me a realistic plan to end the war and I'm all for it. Russia withdrawing, sending its troops to face war crime trials and paying massive reparations to Ukraine isn't a plan; it's a fantasy.
As for me , I just want the Russian pigdogs to leave the Ukraine entirely . A plus would be if they stopped seizing small increments of territory from Georgia .
Are you suggesting that part of the Ukraine be ceded to Russia so we can achieve "peace in our time " ? And maybe we can absolve them of all guilt in war crimes . Maybe we should consider sending Russia reparations for the inconvenience we have caused them . Or maybe a sincere apology .
@kevcvs57 saidAgain, that's a dream, not a plan.
That’s up to Putin and your lying when you pretend otherwise all he has to do is retreat to a defensive line in the Donbas and cease his continued murder of Ukrainian civilians by bombardment. Then everyone can take a breath and see what is and isn’t acceptable to both sides but the idea of pressuring Kyiv whilst it’s citizens are being murdered in their beds is a very sick proposal.
Another negotiation push:
"Turkish President Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan, during a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday, offered to host talks between Russia, Ukraine and the United Nations in Istanbul, according to a Turkish readout of the call."
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-30-22/index.html
I know, I know, KEV, Turkey should be kicked out of NATO for not enthusiastically supporting the fantasy of Russian military defeat.
@no1marauder saidChanneling Neville Chamberlain are we ?
Tell me a realistic plan to end the war and I'm all for it. Russia withdrawing, sending its troops to face war crime trials and paying massive reparations to Ukraine isn't a plan; it's a fantasy.
@kevcvs57 saidRussia will take the rest of Donbas, then maybe they will talk.
That’s up to Putin and your lying when you pretend otherwise all he has to do is retreat to a defensive line in the Donbas and cease his continued murder of Ukrainian civilians by bombardment. Then everyone can take a breath and see what is and isn’t acceptable to both sides but the idea of pressuring Kyiv whilst it’s citizens are being murdered in their beds is a very sick proposal.
Ukraine is losing. The only reason Russia is taking longer to take all of Donbas is because they are letting civilians leave to escape harm. Russia is giving them time to do that to minimize civilian deaths. After all, most of the people in Donbas are ethnic Russians who speak Russian.
@caissad4 saidI'm waiting for your plan other than to fight to the last Ukrainian.
Channeling Neville Chamberlain are we ?
The "it's another Hitler!" thing has been done to death, to hundreds of thousands of, perhaps millions, of deaths in fact.
@no1marauder saidThe Taliban didn't have to fight to the last Afghan.
I'm waiting for your plan other than to fight to the last Ukrainian.
The "it's another Hitler!" thing has been done to death, to hundreds of thousands of, perhaps millions, of deaths in fact.
@metal-brain saidSo far looks like a draw. Ukraine, as well as Finland and Sweden so far - and who knows, maybe Switzerland, Austria and Ireland too - are being driven into NATO's arms while Russia keeps gobbling up territory.
Russia will take the rest of Donbas, then maybe they will talk.
Ukraine is losing. The only reason Russia is taking longer to take all of Donbas is because they are letting civilians leave to escape harm. Russia is giving them time to do that to minimize civilian deaths. After all, most of the people in Donbas are ethnic Russians who speak Russian.
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@athousandyoung saidDidn't I already explain the difference?
The Taliban didn't have to fight to the last Afghan.
Neither the Ukraine or the world can afford a 20 year continuation of this war.
@no1marauder saidNo you didn't. Why can't the Ukraine or the world afford a 20 year continuation of this war?
Didn't I already explain the difference?
Neither the Ukraine or the world can afford a 20 year continuation of this war.
@athousandyoung said"Russia keeps gobbling up territory"
So far looks like a draw. Ukraine, as well as Finland and Sweden so far - and who knows, maybe Switzerland, Austria and Ireland too - are being driven into NATO's arms while Russia keeps gobbling up territory.
That means Russia is winning.