1. SubscriberRuss
    RHP Code Monkey
    RHP HQ
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    05 Mar '08 22:411 edit
    This is a consultation thread for 'clubs' with some (rather rough, but mostly functional) live code behind it to make things more interesting. (Example Club 1)

    The 'clubs' concept can go forward in any direction, adopted wholeheartedly, or be erased completely if it proves to have no merit. So please don't be too upset if this all gets canned in the future.

    Why clubs, what purpose do they have?

    This has come out of a couple of things. When the first accusations of cheating started being voiced years ago, with people taking opposing views on different players, I had considered different ways to satisfy everyone. Also, after thinking about why people would even cheat in the first place, I thought the site probably would benefit from devaluing the site rating system somehow. (Surely, the only reason anyone would consider cheating, right? For some kind of personal glory?)

    The one idea that evolved was the idea of individually ranked communities, managed by those within, with their own rating system running alongside the main site ratings. Hopefully, without fragmenting the general community at the same time.

    Many could exist in parallel, available to all players on the site (subs and non-subs), and the membership managed by 1 or many administrators in each.

    So, with all the recent turmoil with the game mods (we are still very much anti-cheating BTW) I thought I would produce the bare bones version of above and see what happens.

    This is obviously not for everyone, many players on this site do just play a friend or family member, and their rating is of little consequence anyway. But, I thought this would be an interesting experiment that might take the site in a new direction.

    So, the obvious questions :

    Q : Isn't this just like a super-sized clan?
    A : No, clans compete against each other, that is not the purpose of a club.

    Q: How does this rating stuff work again?
    A : Rather than isolate people in a club from the rest of the site, games are created in the normal way. The site will detect when two club members play each other (it could be ANY rated game on the site, a clan game, a tournament game, siege game, a challenge game, or whatever comes along in the future) and then adjust the club rating for those games in addition to the main site rating.

    Q: Isn't this all a bit of a waste of time?
    A: Possibly, time will tell. It is really is just an experiment that I hope will prove useful.

    Anyway, feel free to comment, and don’t hold back. I don't think even Chris is sold on this, so no need to be polite...

    -Russ
  2. Standard memberLukerik
    Stick your hands up
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    05 Mar '08 23:11
    So the first rule of chess club is...
  3. Subscriberhuckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
    DZ-015
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    05 Mar '08 23:33
  4. Joined
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    06 Mar '08 00:13
    Are the moves made on club games included in your overall moves?
  5. Joined
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    06 Mar '08 00:20
    Will engine use still be banned in all games? Or is this opening up the possibility of clubs that will tolerate engine use?
  6. Standard memberAiko
    Nearing 200000...!
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    06 Mar '08 00:25
    The order links of the list do not seem to be working correctly.

    If I click on 'Formed', it does not list the clubs by date created, for instance. It looks like it can only be sorted by number of members?
  7. SubscriberRuss
    RHP Code Monkey
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    06 Mar '08 00:262 edits
    Will engine use still be banned in all games? Or is this opening up the possibility of clubs that will tolerate engine use?

    No, banned as the current policy.

    -Russ
  8. SubscriberRuss
    RHP Code Monkey
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    06 Mar '08 00:29
    Originally posted by mjackson
    Are the moves made on club games included in your overall moves?
    Yes, your club stats are in addition to any other stats that may exist on the site.

    -Russ
  9. Subscriberhuckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
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    06 Mar '08 00:34
    I worry that this will be a clan extension, creating a "Chelsea" styled rotation system for certain clans, leaving other clans no chance of ascending the tables.
  10. Standard memberepic0002
    Black Mark
    walking to and fro
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    06 Mar '08 00:361 edit
    will club games count against a non-sub game cap?
  11. Standard memberRamned
    The Rams
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    06 Mar '08 00:43
    I think clubs are a good idea if developed appropriately.

    Club leaders must be careful to check entrants for engine use however. If any doubts remove em.
  12. Standard memberAiko
    Nearing 200000...!
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    06 Mar '08 00:45
    is the Terms of Service reminder that popped up part of this package? Or was it just my account?
  13. SubscriberRuss
    RHP Code Monkey
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    06 Mar '08 00:48
    Originally posted by Aiko
    is the Terms of Service reminder that popped up part of this package? Or was it just my account?
    That was an all member broadcast.

    -Russ
  14. Subscriberhuckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
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    06 Mar '08 00:50
    Originally posted by Russ
    That was an all member broadcast.

    -Russ
    Is it an amnesty for past discretions, and what is ther current Game moderation system ?
  15. Joined
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    12208
    06 Mar '08 00:54
    Will there be a 20-game provisional period for each club?

    It seems that if engines are still banned site-wide, you're not really removing any of the burden from the site-wide admins (game moderation team or what have you), because you still have to police cheating everywhere. Maybe some of the more "reputable" clubs could kick out cheaters faster based on their own policies, or something. But this in itself could lead to a lot of in-fighting and arguments.

    I'm not sure I'm getting why being in a club would be a compelling experience. If I'm more interested in a club rating than the site rating, that seems like kind of an admission that the site rating is not trustworthy. I'm not sure if you're allowed to join multiple clubs, but if everyone is in 3 or 4 clubs, I think everyone will just look at whichever rating is displayed most prominently in the profile anyway.

    I wonder what percentage of your opponents you would generally expect to come from one of your own clubs. If it's fairly small, then it will take quite a long time for your club ratings to become reliable.
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