07 Mar 17
Originally posted by sonshipEternal life is given by God through Christ.
I know the Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament much better than you do.
Now if you deprive apostolic authority to Paul, you do so also to the writer of [b]Hebrews. You shot yourself in the foot.[/b]
Pauls job was to advise people of how to attain this eternal life, and it is through Christ and by obeying the commandments of Christ.
Paul always referred to eternal life as a HOPE, as something to be granted to those who live righteously. Paul cannot know that. God and Christ alone are the judges of that. Here is an example:
.. the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, (Romans 2:5-8 KJV)
Paul is saying that those who live rightesously will get eternal life. Those who dont will not.
Saved does not mean eternal life.
Originally posted by Rajk999What then does 'saved' mean to you? Are you saying someone can be 'saved' from damnation and not inherit 'eternal life'? 🙄
Eternal life is given by God through Christ.
Pauls job was to advise people of how to attain this eternal life, and it is through Christ and by obeying the commandments of Christ.
Paul always referred to eternal life as a HOPE, as something to be granted to those who live righteously. Paul cannot know that. God and Christ alone are the judges of that. ...[text shortened]... ightesously will get eternal life. Those who dont will not.
Saved does not mean eternal life.
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkMost of Pauls words are inspired by God, MOST, not all. There are times when Paul said that he did not get this from Christ but is giving his own opinion.
Ah so you believe none of Paul's words are inspired by God? Or only the ones you like?
You are just so stupid that you do not take the parts of Pauls words which state which Christian gets eternal life and which does not. Not all Christians get it. The ones who get it are the ones who live righteously.
Originally posted by Rajk999Did he say he was giving his own opinion in Romans 10:10? Or is that simply your opinion?
Most of Pauls words are inspired by God, MOST, not all. There are times when Paul said that he did not get this from Christ but is giving his own opinion.
You are just so stupid that you do not take the parts of Pauls words which state which Christian gets eternal life and which does not. Not all Christians get it. The ones who get it are the ones who live righteously.
Also by your own logic how do you know that he wasn't giving his own opinion when he said the one's who get eternal life are the ones who live righteously?
It seems everything you dislike you classify as his opinion and everything you like you classify as divinely inspired.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by Rajk999Eternal life is given by God through Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This is wonderful music to my ears. I have believed this for awhile.
Thankyou.
Jesus Christ - the way ... the truth .... and the LIFE.
Pauls job was to advise people of how to attain this eternal life, and it is through Christ and by obeying the commandments of Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Paul's "job" consisted of very much. After chapter 10 you still have 11,12,13,14,15, and 16. All MARVELOUS chapters telling the Christian church so much.
Do you know I could discuss for a week just chapter 16?
The gems in chapter 16 are wonderful.
Paul always referred to eternal life as a HOPE, as something to be granted to those who live righteously.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is true that most of the verses in Romans about "eternal life" are along the lines of eternal life being a goal arrived at through living.
Years ago I spent time looking up, in Romans all of Paul's usage of the phrase. And I found phrases like "unto" - showing a process toward a goal.
Paul was not the only apostle. John emphatically tells the church that we Christians may KNOW that we have eternal life.
That is not wish.
That is not see how things turn out.
That is not hope for the best.
That is that we may KNOW that presently, we have eternal life.
You regard this assurance as license to live in the same manner as when one was unsaved. I point to it to establish a unmovable foundation upon which to go on to live a consecrated life in obedience to Christ.
Self improvement does not work.
Self improvement and attempting to do better does not work.
Taking Christ Himself as everything you need brings the believer into victory.
When the New Testament says that we were crucified and buried with Christ in His death, this is the realization that NOTHING we have can God use. We have nothing. We can bring Him nothing. The whole matter of the old creation He has rejected even before I was born.
If I backslide and sin, I may be shocked that I could do such a thing. I am shocked. God is not shocked. He knows before I was born that the whole old man has to be rejected.
Now I have Christ living in me. I derive everything from Him, including the ability to be consecrated, sanctified, set aside for Him.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
07 Mar 17
6 edits
Paul cannot know that. God and Christ alone are the judges of that. Here is an example:
.. the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, (Romans 2:5-8 KJV)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole discussion from Romans 1:18 through to Romans 3:20 is about Condemnation and the need for Salvation.
First Paul deals with condemnation upon all mankind in general (1:18 -32)
Secondly he deals with condemnation upon the Self Righteous in particular (2:1-16)
Third he deals with condemnation upon the Religious specifically (2:17-3:8)
Fourth and last he deals with condemnation on all the world totally (3:9-20)
Starting from Romans 3:21 all through 5:11, having laid the grand ground work of condemnation, he now turns to his subject of Justification.
The passage you refer to (Rom. 2:5-8) is from that whole section on Condemnation upon the Self Righteous. I agree that in that section Paul says:
"To those who by endurance in good work seek glory and honor and incorruptibility, eternal life." (2:7)
There is no possibility for me to think that this verse nullifies his conclusion in the last verses JUST before he embarks on his explanation of Justification 3:21-5:11.
The concluding word on all his discussion of different catagories for condemnation is this:
" Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law; that [edited] every mouth may be stopped and all the world may fall under the judgment of God. (v.19)
Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin." (v.20)
If Paul speaks of seekers who through endurance seek glory and honor and incorruptibility to arrive at eternal life, he is most likely to be speaking of those who are Justified by means of what he explains from his teaching on that matter between 3:21 - 5:11.
If this was not the case then I don't think he would have written about "ALL THE WORLD" falling under the judgment of God (v.19). He did not say "all the Gentiles". He did not say "all the disobedient law keeping Jews". He said "all the world".
And before he teaches that all the world falls under the judgment of God he quoted the prophet Isaiah that NO ONE really seeks after God and that there is none righteous, not even ONE. (See 3:9-18).
Even as it is written, " There is none righteous, not even one.
There is none who understands, there is none who seeks out God.
All have turned aside; together they have become useless; there is none who does good; there is not so much as one. " (vs.10-13)
The people therefore in 2:8-7 must be those who are Justified as he is about to explain.
Paul is saying that those who live rightesously will get eternal life. Those who dont will not.
Saved does not mean eternal life.
---------------------------------------------------------
For length's sake I stop here.
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by Rajk999So you know what is good scripture and what isn't? Wow. quite a power you have there, Satan was saying basically the same thing to Eve. Look where that got everyone!
Most of Pauls words are inspired by God, MOST, not all. There are times when Paul said that he did not get this from Christ but is giving his own opinion.
You are just so stupid that you do not take the parts of Pauls words which state which Christian gets eternal life and which does not. Not all Christians get it. The ones who get it are the ones who live righteously.
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by PudgenikI have to rephrase one thing so you can understand me better.
Darn right i know that, and i will bring the fire of God down on them as well when the time comes.
The Christians who know the law. The Law will not save them in the end. What is the Law? The Laws are thought only as the Laws of God, But what is the Law? The Law of God is Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God, and the Word of God was given to Moses. This is wh ...[text shortened]... es you to, and will honor your gift. Can you give without knowing what will happen to you after?
Where i said, "The Christians who know the law. The Law will not save them in the end. "
Should read, "The Christians who know the Law. Knowing the Law will not save them in the end. "
07 Mar 17
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseSonhouse, if you were to build a car. Say take it all down to the nuts and bolts, rebuild it, and put your heart and soul into it. Would you not care about that car. Or would you just take it out and smash it into a wall? And what of children, do you have any, do you cherish them?
This is hilarious, humans thinking a god would give a shyte about them.
The God i believe in cherishes His creation.
I don't expect you to believe in God. That isn't what matters. What matters is that you can cherish your children, love them in your heart.
As far as your unbelief, i can take it. But i will still have that chess game set up for you when the time comes.
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by PudgenikWhich leads to the problem of evil. The fact that car accidents happen suggests that the God you believe in doesn't exist.
Sonhouse, if you were to build a car. Say take it all down to the nuts and bolts, rebuild it, and put your heart and soul into it. Would you not care about that car. Or would you just take it out and smash it into a wall? And what of children, do you have any, do you cherish them?
The God i believe in cherishes His creation.
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by twhiteheadwhat is evil about an accident?
Which leads to the problem of evil. The fact that car accidents happen suggests that the God you believe in doesn't exist.
And you are suggesting that the God i believe in dictates what humans do. You have forgotten free will, and i'm not talking whales here (that was a movie 'free willy'😉
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by sonshipPaul, a man that followed Christ to the end, did not know whether or not he had eternal life, but YOU, an ordinary nobody claim that you know that you have eternal life. Paul knew that he had to await the righteous judgment of God and in the meantime keep himself and his body in subjection lest he be excluded from the Kingdom of God. Paui lived in the HOPE of eternal life. He waited for the promise of eternal life.
[b]
Paul cannot know that. God and Christ alone are the judges of that. Here is an example:
.
But you foolish Christians walk around boasting of your eternal life which you do not have. Paul was sent to preach. He had no authority to grant himself eternal life neither anyone else.
Being saved DOES NOT EQUATE eternal life. Paul in speaking to the churches ALL OF WHOM WERE SAINTS and ALL SAVED warned them that they must continue in righteous living and good works otherwise they will not enter the Kingdom of God.
SAVED AND ETERNAL LIFE AND TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.