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Eternal salvation once obtained through faith can never be revoked. This is not only the teaching of Paul. It is the teaching of Jesus whom Paul followed:
According to God's will Christ should lose none whom the Father has given to Him:
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up in the last day." (John 6:39)
How then could we be eternally saved and latter uneternally saved ?
Paul follows Jesus to teach the same - (Eph. 1:5; 2 Tim. 1:9)
The writer of the book of Hebrews (probably Paul also) follows Jesus to teach this security - (Heb. 6:17)
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Originally posted by jaywill...Provided you do good works.
Eternal salvation once obtained through faith can never be revoked. This is not only the teaching of Paul. It is the teaching of Jesus whom Paul followed:
According to God's will Christ should lose none whom the Father has given to Him:
[b]"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should ra ...[text shortened]... Hebrews (probably Paul also) follows Jesus to teach this security - (Heb. 6:17)[/b][/b]
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For those of you who believe that one is "saved" via "good" works, how then do you view the death of Christ on the cross? Obviously, if we are saved via good works then such a sacrifice is in vain in contributing to our salvation. Either that or he is viewed as just one of many who were martyred as prophets of God and is of no particular importance. In such a case, he is just one of many prophets who have died in the name of God in the OT. Then again, you may believe as the Muslims do that God switched Jesus with some other poor sod who died in his place.
Originally posted by whodeyBoth faith and good works are required for salvation.
For those of you who believe that one is "saved" via "good" works, how then do you view the death of Christ on the cross? Obviously, if we are saved via good works then such a sacrifice is in vain in contributing to our salvation. Either that or he is viewed as just one of many who were martyred as prophets of God and is of no particular importance. In such ...[text shortened]... ve as the Muslims do that God switched Jesus with some other poor sod who died in his place.
Not faith alone.
Not works alone.
Proclaiming faith does not mean good works automaticlly follow as you childishly think.
So please stop wasting everybody's time with your silly arguments.
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Originally posted by Rajk999So are you saying that faith placed in Christ's sacrifice for our sins is a requirement or is it irrelevant regarding our salvation?
Both faith and good works are required for salvation.
Not faith alone.
Not works alone.
Proclaiming faith does not mean good works automaticlly follow as you childishly think.
So please stop wasting everybody's time with your silly arguments.
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Originally posted by jaywill[/b]Put the words of Jesus in context:
Eternal salvation once obtained through faith can never be revoked. This is not only the teaching of Paul. It is the teaching of Jesus whom Paul followed:
According to God's will Christ should lose none whom the Father has given to Him:
[b]"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should ra [b]Hebrews (probably Paul also) follows Jesus to teach this security - (Heb. 6:17)[/b]
John 6:39-40
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
This leaves the question of what might He mean by "believe"?
Look at what John the Baptist says:
John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
One who "believes" but does not "obey", does not have "eternal life".
Jesus echoes the concept here:
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven"
One doesn't truly "believe" if one doesn't "obey".
Originally posted by whodeyHe's saying an outward manifestation of that faith 'placed in Christ's
So are you saying that faith placed in Christ's sacrifice for our sins is a requirement or is it irrelevant regarding our salvation?
sacrifice...' is works; that, someone's claim to having faith, in the
absence of works, is a false claim.
How hard is this to conceive?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioI think even the Catholics finally came around on the grace issue, when they concurred with us Protestants that salvation is a free gift of God--Grace ALONE (lest any man should boast). No works. Not one. Period.
He's saying an outward manifestation of that faith 'placed in Christ's
sacrifice...' is works; that, someone's claim to having faith, in the
absence of works, is a false claim.
How hard is this to conceive?
Nemesio
Oh--and I think i've got a Jesus quote for ya, ToO---He said "Ask anything in My name and I will give it." Thus, we ask for forgiveness, and get it. We ask for it AGAIN, we still get it. ....... Right? 🙂
Originally posted by PinkFloydThe Catholics !? Really ?
I think even the Catholics finally came around on the grace issue, when they concurred with us Protestants that salvation is a free gift of God--Grace ALONE (lest any man should boast). No works. Not one. Period.
Oh--and I think i've got a Jesus quote for ya, ToO---He said "Ask anything in My name and I will give it." Thus, we ask for forgiveness, and get it. We ask for it AGAIN, we still get it. ....... Right? 🙂
Then you must be right.
Originally posted by PinkFloydI wonder if anyone has ever asked for something in His name and not received it. 🙂
I think even the Catholics finally came around on the grace issue, when they concurred with us Protestants that salvation is a free gift of God--Grace ALONE (lest any man should boast). No works. Not one. Period.
Oh--and I think i've got a Jesus quote for ya, ToO---He said "Ask anything in My name and I will give it." Thus, we ask for forgiveness, and get it. We ask for it AGAIN, we still get it. ....... Right? 🙂
Originally posted by PinkFloydNo one is disputing this. Grace is a gift from God. It is not earned.
I think even the Catholics finally came around on the grace issue, when they concurred with us Protestants that salvation is a free gift of God--Grace ALONE (lest any man should boast). No works. Not one. Period.
Works do not beget grace.
However, the idea that grace is bestowed on someone whose faith is
dead (someone who does not commit works) is not Biblically sound.
Do you see the difference?
Nemesio
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Originally posted by NemesioWhat is the minimun works frequency in order to "enliven" one's faith?
No one is disputing this. Grace is a gift from God. It is not earned.
Works do not beget grace.
However, the idea that grace is bestowed on someone whose faith is
dead (someone who does not commit works) is not Biblically sound.
Do you see the difference?
Nemesio
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI notice people like to ask questions like this... questions that have no biblical answer.
What is the minimun works frequency in order to "enliven" one's faith?
There is no minimum or maximum or qualifying works frequency.
The expression 'works frequency' (or similar expression) does not appear in the bible.
Your works could be zero or as voluminous as Mother Theresa, it is Christ that will judge how well you have performed according to the talents you were given.