Originally posted by SwissGambit
You'd think the angel could have told them not to waste a flyer on my house if I was unworthy. 🙂

Yes, but people move home, persons who were formerly opposed, some circumstance
in their life changes and they get a different perspective, other family members may
not be opposed, after all, i was the only person in my entire family of three brothers
and a sister to become a Witness. we have no way of knowing who will read the tract
or whether they will respond, nor are we very assuming.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
they are only professionals with years of experience.

You mean they get paid?

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't see how that could be argued, but I'm open to your views.

Like I said, I won't argue it, but here is an argument followed by some push-back and discussion.

http://willspirit.com/2011/04/09/we-are-all-mentally-ill/

I will add that this is not to say that every person has a mental disorder. The people working on DSM-5 are considering this definition of a disorder:

A. A behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual

B. That reflects an underlying psychobiological dysfunction

C. The consequences of which are clinically significant distress (e.g., a painful symptom) or disability (i.e., impairment in one or more important areas of functioning)

D. Must not be merely an expectable response to common stressors and losses (for example, the loss of a loved one) or a culturally sanctioned response to a particular event (for example, trance states in religious rituals)

E. That is not primarily a result of social deviance or conflicts with society

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=465

I do think that all of us have important psychological problems, colloquially speaking, mental disease or illness. I used to think there were a favored few who don't, but not any more. And I'm not talking about just having daily problems to deal with.

I think treating people including ourselves as if this is the case, is the charitable thing to do. This certainly does not include a group's mean shunning them

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm feeling I'm caught in a Galvo-carrobie pincer move involving the ancient tactics of "aposticus-ignoricus" combined with the famous "tag me out robbie I'm done".

Well I don't play tag and I know Robbie doesn't either. I had my meeting to go to today and had obviously more important things to do then listen to your nonsense..as usual.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm feeling I'm caught in a Galvo-carrobie pincer move involving the ancient tactics of "aposticus-ignoricus" combined with the famous "tag me out robbie I'm done".

This thread has some of the answers you are after.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Excommunicated__-__30%2C000_%2F_year__-__Love_JW_Style&threadid=143280

I was on their case for a long time and they did answer [not to anyones satisfaction though 🙂] some of the questions.

Wont be surprised if they are tired of posting these answers again.

Originally posted by Rajk999
This thread has some of the answers you are after.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Excommunicated__-__30%2C000_%2F_year__-__Love_JW_Style&threadid=143280

I was on their case for a long time and they did answer [not to anyones satisfaction though 🙂] some of the questions.

Wont be surprised if they are tired of posting these answers again.

I am personally as it has been explained with scripture many times now. Either one gets God viewpoint by scripture and his command to keep the congregation clean as well as to not associate with unbelievers or one doesn't.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
...said the man sucked into a false belief.

-+

And the fumes were strangely intoxicating , but after a while , strangely familiar and becoming quite nausiating...

Originally posted by galveston75
I am personally as it has been explained with scripture many times now. Either one gets God viewpoint by scripture and his command to keep the congregation clean as well as to not associate with unbelievers or one doesn't.

This is one reason why we MUST have separation of church and state. Imagine a country where apostates were subjected to shunning with government behind it.

Originally posted by galveston75
I am personally as it has been explained with scripture many times now. Either one gets God viewpoint by scripture and his command to keep the congregation clean as well as to not associate with unbelievers or one doesn't.

I can't find any Biblical scripture to justify what the JW organisation does to people who decide to leave it.

Telling members of a family to disassociate with their loved ones, labelling people "apostates" and "mentally diseased" just because they leave your church is a disgraceful way to treat another human being.

Originally posted by divegeester
I can't find any Biblical scripture to justify what the JW organisation does to people who decide to leave it.

Telling members of a family to disassociate with their loved ones, labelling people "apostates" and "mentally diseased" just because they leave your church is a disgraceful way to treat another human being.

Why Some Are Disfellowshipped
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin.
Consider a Scriptural example of disfellowshipping. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When disfellowshipped and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.
Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer. Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life. (2 Corinthians 2:8-11) If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.

What is accomplished by disfellowshipping? It keeps Jehovah’s holy name clear of reproach and protects the fine reputation of his people. (1 Peter 1:14-16) Removing an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation upholds God’s standards and preserves the congregation’s spiritual cleanness. It may also bring the unrepentant one to his senses.

Based on the principles of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian Greek Scriptures by command and precedent authorize expulsion, or disfellowshipping, from the Christian congregation. By exercising this God-given authority, the congregation keeps itself clean and in good standing before God. The apostle Paul, with the authority vested in him, ordered the expulsion of an incestuous fornicator who had taken his father’s wife. (1Co 5:5, 11, 13) He also exercised disfellowshipping authority against Hymenaeus and Alexander. (1Ti 1:19, 20) Diotrephes, however, was apparently trying to exercise disfellowshipping action wrongly.—3Jo 9, 10.
Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8) Mercifully, one promoting a sect is warned a first and a second time before such disfellowshipping action is taken against him. In the Christian congregation, the principle enunciated in the Law applies, namely, that two or three witnesses must establish evidence against the accused one. (1Ti 5:19) Those who have been convicted of a practice of sin are reproved Scripturally before the “onlookers,” for example, those who testified concerning the sinful conduct, so that they too may all have a healthy fear of such sin.—1Ti 5:20; see REPROOF.
The Christian congregation is also admonished by Scripture to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly but who are not deemed deserving of complete expulsion. Paul wrote the Thessalonian congregation concerning such: “Stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.”—2Th 3:6, 11, 13-15.
However, regarding any who were Christians but later repudiated the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: “Quit mixing in company with” such a one; and the apostle John wrote: “Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.
Those who have been expelled may be received back into the congregation if they manifest sincere repentance. (2Co 2:5-8) This also is a protection to the congregation, preventing it from being overreached by Satan in swinging from condoning wrongdoing to the other extreme, becoming harsh and unforgiving.—2Co 2:10, 11.



Here are a few scriptures for you....

Originally posted by galveston75
Why Some Are Disfellowshipped
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin.
Conside ...[text shortened]... eme, becoming harsh and unforgiving.—2Co 2:10, 11.



Here are a few scriptures for you....

Thanks for the copy/paste bomb, but I'm not talking about 'dis-fellowship ' which I (and I imagine many Christians can see in the Bible in extreme cases). As I clearly said a few posts back I am talking about commanding family members to "shun" loved ones who leave the JW organisation and labelling them apostates and "mentally diseased".

Do you think someone who leaves the JW organisation is "mentally diseased"?

Originally posted by divegeester
Thanks for the copy/paste bomb, but I'm not talking about 'dis-fellowship ' which I (and I imagine many Christians can see in the Bible in extreme cases). As I clearly said a few posts back I am talking about commanding family members to "shun" loved ones who leave the JW organisation and labelling them apostates and "mentally diseased".

Do you think someone who leaves the JW organisation is "mentally diseased"?

I can only see the actions of them but can't see what their thinking or why they left.
But to turn ones back on Jehovah is seriously wrong and it makes them an apostate and an antichrist as they refuse for whatever reason to serve Jehovah and promote the truth of him to others as Jesus said to do.

Sorry about the "bomb" of information that clearly explains the reasons why we do as God ask. I hope it didn't upset you too much or waist your time.....

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually the scriptures term such individuals as mentally diseased,

(1 Timothy 6:2-5) . . .Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations.
 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of
our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion,  he is
puffed up [with pride] ...[text shortened]... t some research, it
sounds though as a kind of self delusion, later termed, corrupted in mind.

This couldn't sum you up any more succinctly -

he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth,........

Originally posted by Proper Knob
This couldn't sum you up any more succinctly -

he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth,........

really, i have not argued any points in this thread, merely providing scriptural
references which form the basis of our stance. See even here I have restrained myself
despite the attempted personal slur on my excellent reputation as a preacher of
righteousness. Many times i have refused to get involved in petty trifles, arguments of
a purely semantic nature, useless speculations on hypothetical scenarios. Indeed i
refused to be drawn to the level of humy and the googly one who utilise nothing more
than abusive ad hominems. In fact, I think I am rather saintly to be honest and if I
were a catholic would expect to be canonised at some point in time. St Robbie who had
miraculous powers of self restraint and tastefulness.