Guns????

Originally posted by divegeester
Of course, I was merely responding to you posting this about yourself earlier in this thread:

[b]I am a good guy by all means but I have to work on myself when ones who do cross the line, "in my opinion", get to me. But I think all here should show respect for each other and if something someone is saying or doing makes anyone here feel uncomfortable ...[text shortened]... ut even more I hope we all can handle things differently and learn from the mistakes made.[/b]

Thank you for respecting the subject at hand.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Kelly, we've been killing each other as long as we've been on this planet. The earliest school shooting in the US can be dated to 1764 (according wiki), our species is prone to violence.

If society can't reduce peoples propensity towards violence, then reduce the amount of violence they can commit. In the case of bullets it's a matter of math. A gun ...[text shortened]... old say five rounds is going to do a lot less damage than a gun which holds twenty or fifty.

As I pointed out earlier we are being taught in our entertainment that killing is
sometimes the right answer, its nearly demanded, and weak minded among
us can take that and run with it. I often wonder why hack and slash movies
are so popular with us, it is all nothing but gore and violence and many times
over it is mindless violence too. We feed our heads and hearts with this stuff
over and over it has to have an effect in my opinion anyway. It also isn’t just
movies as some music glorifies death as well, our culture is being filled with
it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I didn't deny that 5 rounds verses 20 kills less, I just pointed out if you wanted to
kill 20 you'd bring more guns or get created in other ways to do maximum damage
as Timothy McVeigh showed us with the Oklahoma City bombing.
Kelly

Timothy McVeigh was a soldier, the killer yesterday wasn't. Yet this person yesterday was able, by the looks of things, to get hold of military grade weapons. Reduce the amount of rounds these guns can fire and you reduce the amount of carnage they can cause. It's simple math Kelly.

Would you support a reduction in the amount of rounds these guns can fire?

Originally posted by galveston75
Thank you for respecing the subject at hand.

No problem; we can address the point later.

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I pointed out earlier we are being taught in our entertainment that killing is
sometimes the right answer, its nearly demanded, and weak minded among
us can take that and run with it. I often wonder why hack and slash movies
are so popular with us, it is all nothing but gore and violence and many times
over it is mindless violence too. We feed our h ...[text shortened]... just
movies as some music glorifies death as well, our culture is being filled with
it.
Kelly

You worship a God who has killed countless people, the OT is also filled with grotesque violence.

Did Jack the Ripper watch slasher movies or play video games?

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I pointed out earlier we are being taught in our entertainment that killing is
sometimes the right answer, its nearly demanded, and weak minded among
us can take that and run with it. I often wonder why hack and slash movies
are so popular with us, it is all nothing but gore and violence and many times
over it is mindless violence too. We feed our h ...[text shortened]... just
movies as some music glorifies death as well, our culture is being filled with
it.
Kelly

I take it you own a gun??

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Timothy McVeigh was a soldier, the killer yesterday wasn't. Yet this person yesterday was able, by the looks of things, to get hold of military grade weapons. Reduce the amount of rounds these guns can fire and you reduce the amount of carnage they can cause. It's simple math Kelly.

Would you support a reduction in the amount of rounds these guns can fire?

A soldier, no, I'd not insult soldiers like that. murder pure and simple is
the word I place on both.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
I take it you own a gun??

No never have and don't plan on it either, but the right I respect.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You worship a God who has killed countless people, the OT is also filled with grotesque violence.

Did Jack the Ripper watch slasher movies or play video games?

Everyone dies, OT or NT or those not written about in scripture.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I didn't deny that 5 rounds verses 20 kills less, I just pointed out if you wanted to
kill 20 you'd bring more guns or get created in other ways to do maximum damage
as Timothy McVeigh showed us with the Oklahoma City bombing.
Kelly

The point that you are spectacularly missing is that making killing people harder and more work
reduces the number of people killed.

I studied physics and chemistry and could quite easily build explosive devices of considerable power
if I put my mind to it.

However the required skill set to do that is quite rare.

Your average teenager/20 year old loosing the plot (which lets face it represents a significant proportion
of school shootings/other massacres) doesn't have that skill set or takes that kind of time preparing
and planning.

Guns are ready made killing machines that have a very low skill threshold for using them.
Particularly against people not armed and combat trained themselves.


If we look at people who are dedicated to killing large numbers of civilians and who do take a long time
preparing we could look at Islamic extremists.

It has been noted (with great relief) that they are generally pretty incompetent at bomb making.
We had in this country an 'attack' on an airport where a doctor (someone you would hope was pretty smart
and should have some knowledge of chemistry) drove a car filled with 'explosives' into the main terminal.

The only person killed was the terrorist who died in hospital from burns... nothing exploded.

This was because he filled the car with petrol, gas cylinders and nails.
Petrol tends to burn rather than explode, and gas cylinders are designed to resist fire and not explode.
Apparently he thought that just dumping these together and stacking nails around them made a bomb.

The point is that people are very often incompetent.

Every time you step up the difficulty for killing people you reduce the number of successful attacks.

You could cause terrible devastation if you could hijack an aircraft and fly it into (say) a sports stadium.
But that is very hard to do, so terrorists are less likely to attempt it, and less likely to succeed if they do try.

If you realise that probably most if not all the Islamic terrorists who have attacked the west in the last decade
would have loved to have replicated the 911 attacks or worse, but didn't because it was too hard for them to do.
Then you realise that every lesser attack they attempted (even the successful ones) were victories for security
measures that prevented them from doing worse.
If every terrorist attack was as effective as 911 they would have killed thousands more people per attack than we
have lost to terrorism in the last decade combined. (not including war zone casualties)


Making it harder to kill people saves lives.

Guns make killing easy.

Some guns are designed specifically to make killing many people easy.

Thus those guns should be restricted and controlled... regulated in fact.

The USA is almost alone in it's attitude on this subject.

It also has the highest gun death/crime rate per capita of any western nation.

Go figure.

Originally posted by KellyJay
A soldier, no, I'd not insult soldiers like that. murder pure and simple is
the word I place on both.
Kelly

Regardless of what label you want to place on McVeigh, the fact remains he was a trained soldier hence his ability to build a massive great fertiliser bomb. Since that atrocity i would imagine it would be virtually impossible to replicate such a bomb with sales of massive quantities of fertiliser being closely monitored by the authorities. There has only been one such attack as the one carried out by McVeigh yet mass shootings occur almost every few months.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Everyone dies, OT or NT or those not written about in scripture.
Kelly

Of course everyone dies, but how does that bear any relation to my post? You seem to be laying the blame at video games and violent movies yet you yourself worship a God who responsible for killing people.

I notice you didn't answer my question - Would you support a reduction in the amount of rounds guns can fire?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Regardless of what label you want to place on McVeigh, the fact remains he was a trained soldier hence his ability to build a massive great fertiliser bomb. Since that atrocity i would imagine it would be virtually impossible to replicate such a bomb with sales of massive quantities of fertiliser being closely monitored by the authorities. There has only ...[text shortened]... such attack as the one carried out by McVeigh yet mass shootings occur almost every few months.

The same authorities that still don't know squat about Fast and furious or the
Libya terror attack, I'm not comforted.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Of course everyone dies, but how does that bear any relation to my post? You seem to be laying the blame at video games and violent movies yet you yourself worship a God who responsible for killing people.

I notice you didn't answer my question - Would you support a reduction in the amount of rounds guns can fire?

Everyyone dies because that is how God designed it, and you want to complain
about some over others? He gives and takes away, nothing you have you can
keep forever including your life here.
Kelly

Originally posted by googlefudge
The point that you are spectacularly missing is that making killing people harder and more work
reduces the number of people killed.

I studied physics and chemistry and could quite easily build explosive devices of considerable power
if I put my mind to it.

However the required skill set to do that is quite rare.

Your average teenager/20 yea ...[text shortened]... also has the highest gun death/crime rate per capita of any western nation.

Go figure.

I'm not missing your point, I'm making my own. If people wish to murder a lot
of people at one time they can do it so many ways it is not funny. The root cause
isn't the tools they use, it is the heart of man. More than a few people own guns
and they will never go out and murder people like this nut job did. It isn't the
tool it is the person, and it is the people where these things come from.

The gun laws in Chicago are strong yet people are getting killed by guns there a
lot more than places that allow guns to be carried. We can always find exceptions
but to disarm those that honor life, because there are those that don't will not
fix it, it will only strengthen the power of those that don't honor life over those
that do.
Kelly