Originally posted by sonshipThe Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason.
The thread title is a genuine question.
[b] Proof: Charles Taze Russell & Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower is Masonic Gnosticism
The video recommended is one demonstrating that the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses was a Masonic Gnostic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSofpcdjj_s[/b]
Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic. And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial erected some years later.
In an address delivered in a San Francisco masonic hall in 1913, Russell made positive use of masonic imagery by saying, "Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren." He further develops this idea: "true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiselled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple." Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that "I have never been a mason." Those who claim Russell was a freemason quote this address out of context without noting the rhetorical imagery.
Although Russell wrote about the pyramids and the Knights Templar, the pyramids are not a part of Freemasonry and Russell’s understanding of the relationship between the modern Knights Templar and Freemasonry displays an outsider’s ignorance of both organizations.
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html
See what happens when you feed your mind on garbage, you end up spouting the very same. Let it serve as a lesson to you.
Originally posted by sonshipDo you really expect us to take statements like,
The thread title is a genuine question.
[b] Proof: Charles Taze Russell & Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower is Masonic Gnosticism
The video recommended is one demonstrating that the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses was a Masonic Gnostic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSofpcdjj_s[/b]
Masons are expert liars through unholy rituals that make them unrepentant demoniacally possessed duplicitous goat servants of the Devil. - from the description of the video.
Seriously? Really?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieSome pushback from Robbie:
The Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason.
Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic. And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial er ...[text shortened]... u feed your mind on garbage, you end up spouting the very same. Let it serve as a lesson to you.
The Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason.
Where can I see that ?
Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic.
I'll give you a fair hearing. But with all your criticism of the cross and all your insistence that Jesus died on a torture stake - WHY on earth do you have a CROSS on Russell's memorial ?
I would think that your teacher Russell would have wanted that to be the last thing to honor him with.
And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial erected some years later.
True. It is not his gravestone. But it is near it and is a memorial to him. Why don't you JWs rally the "prudent and faithful servant" class and insist that the cross be removed ?
They're the ones teaching you all to go into people's homes and suspicion them about the symbol of the CROSS.
In an address delivered in a San Francisco masonic hall in 1913, Russell made positive use of masonic imagery by saying, "Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren."
So if he was disowned by the Masons latter (if indeed he was) at that time at least he aspired or boasted of being one of them. Am I right ?
Perhaps, the Masons latter felt to distance themselves from Russell.
He further develops this idea: "true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiselled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple." Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that "I have never been a mason." Those who claim Russell was a freemason quote this address out of context without noting the rhetorical imagery.
Your explanation I will consider as I look into it more.
Although Russell wrote about the pyramids and the Knights Templar, the pyramids are not a part of Freemasonry and Russell’s understanding of the relationship between the modern Knights Templar and Freemasonry displays an outsider’s ignorance of both organizations.
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html
See what happens when you feed your mind on garbage, you end up spouting the very same. Let it serve as a lesson to you.
Is Acts 8:37 dropped out of your New World Translation?
If so, why if you teach Jesus is the Son of God?
Isaiah 9:6 you teach is not about Jehovah being the Mighty God. Would you please quote below from your translation Isaiah 10:21. Who does it say is the mighty God?
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22 Apr 15
Robbie, that a lot of people have it out for Freemasonary is understandable. And the relationship between Masons and Freemasonary I have not gotten yet.
I think the idea of Lenin and Billy Graham being Masons is laughable. But let's see the pushback:
Charles Taze Russell?
Claims have been made that "Pastor" Russell (1852/02/16-1916/10/31), founder of the International Bible Students Association — forerunner of the Jehovah’s Witnesses — was a freemason; that the banner on the front of early issues of the Watchtower contained masonic symbols; and that Russell’s gravestone bears a masonic cross and crown symbol.
Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic. And the cross and crown symbol does not appear on his gravestone in the Rosemont United Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania — it appears on a memorial erected some years later.
It is weak to say it was not on his gravestone. It is on a memorial near his gravestone. And there is a large Masonic temple nearby.
Aren't you a little suspicious ?
I was going to quote the article until I noticed that you already did.
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"Now, I am a free and accepted mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our masonic brethren." He further develops this idea: "true Bible believers may or may not belong to the masonic fraternity, but they are all masons of the highest order, since they are being fashioned, chiselled and polished by the Almighty to be used as living stones in the Temple Built Without Hands. They are free from sin, and therefore accepted by the God of Heaven as fit stones for the heavenly Temple." Later in this address, Russell stated quite clearly that "I have never been a mason." Those who claim Russell was a freemason quote this address out of context without noting the rhetorical imagery.
1.) Robbie, why does refer to "our masonic brethren"?
2.) Is the phrase "masonic fraternity" connected with the phrase "our masonic brethren" ?
3.) Was he hoping many member of his group WOULD be masons? That is many, if not all.
4.) The cornerstone of the temple is Christ. Christ as the cornerstone was rejected by the builders. Why didn't Russell recognize that all his trying to demote or deprive Jesus of deity was in fact a continuation of the Jewish builders rejecting the chosen cornerstone of God's temple ?
Is there a nickel's worth of difference between the criticism of the chief priests and Pharisees to oppose Jesus and the Jehovah's Witnesses opposition to Jesus ?
Not that much difference. You have to do something with Jesus. So you make him the angel Michael. But at heart there is staunch opposition to the cornerstone of God's building in favor of thinking your doing a favor in uplifting the Old Testament Jehovah.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadThe memorial is quite close to the gravestone. Making a rational that the symbol is NOT on the gravestone, is an accurate objection. But I think it is a "weak" one.
Seriously, it is not 'weak', it is an accurate correction.
What is in it for you if the man in question was a Mason?
A stronger rationale would be that it was not in the area at all.
It seems to be in close proximity to it in order to purposely draw attention to the connection. It is after all called a memorial to him.
22 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipJaywill i have presented the facts to you. The Freemasons themselves have stated that Russel was never a mason. If you do not believe them then there really is nothing I can do. Sorry.
Some pushback from Robbie:
The Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason.
Where can I see that ?
Russell was not a freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively masonic.
I'll give you a fair hearing. But with all your criticism of th ...[text shortened]... please quote below from your translation [b]Isaiah 10:21. Who does it say is the mighty God?[/b]
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Jaywill i have presented the facts to you. The Freemasons themselves have stated that Russel was never a mason. If you do not believe them then there really is nothing I can do. Sorry.
Jaywill i have presented the facts to you. The Freemasons themselves have stated that Russel was never a mason. If you do not believe them then there really is nothing I can do. Sorry.
I see a publication where the Freemasons understandably pour some cold water on wild conspiracy spreaders.
Was he really OUT of it?
Was he close but not quite IN, not ever accepted?
That is possible, that he may have not been a properly initiated or recognized officially though he had some association.
I don't know yet. But regardless, the teaching you promote is Arian heresy resisting the incarnation of God as the man Jesus Christ. There is no question about that.
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22 Apr 15
Claims have been made that "Pastor" Russell (1852/02/16-1916/10/31), founder of the International Bible Students Association — forerunner of the Jehovah’s Witnesses — was a freemason; that the banner on the front of early issues of the Watchtower contained masonic symbols; and that Russell’s gravestone bears a masonic cross and crown symbol.
I would like to know who OWNS the land there on which that graveyard is ?
Robbie, is there some cooperative connection between the nearby Masonic temple and that cemetery ?
Why was such a "memorial" set up latter afterwards for Charles Russell ?
Originally posted by sonshipJaywill you are looking like a whacked out conspiracy theorists, i tell you truly, just give it up and try something else, for your own sake. Brother Russell gave a talk in a Masonic Hall (we hired lots of places back then for giving Bible discourses) he used the allegory of a mason. The Freemasons themselves have stated that he was never a Freemason, what is there to discuss? Nothing.Jaywill i have presented the facts to you. The Freemasons themselves have stated that Russel was never a mason. If you do not believe them then there really is nothing I can do. Sorry.
I see a publication where the Freemasons understandably pour some cold water on wild conspiracy spreaders.
Was he really OUT of it?
Was he close ...[text shortened]... eresy resisting the incarnation of God as the man Jesus Christ. There is no question about that.
Originally posted by sonshipI have no idea nor do I care. To us Brother Russell is just like any other Witness. Many of his teachings were sound, many of them were not and have been discarded over time. But what is striking about his may of teaching as opposed to TV Evangelists who use feigned emotional content is that he always appeals to reason.
[quote] Claims have been made that "Pastor" Russell (1852/02/16-1916/10/31), founder of the International Bible Students Association — forerunner of the Jehovah’s Witnesses — was a freemason; that the banner on the front of early issues of the Watchtower contained masonic symbols; and that Russell’s gravestone bears a masonic cross and crown symbol. [/quote ...[text shortened]... nd that cemetery ?
Why was such a "memorial" set up latter afterwards for Charles Russell ?