Originally posted by sonshipumm we don't deny Christ's virgin birth, nor his redemption, nor his resurrection - that makes either you or Lee a liar, guilty of bearing false witness, of misrepresenting the beliefs of others, of slander and defamation of character. Such a man is not worthy to make any sound judgements and should be ignored as a prejudiced, ignorant, spiritually unprincipled and corrupted man. He is a whitewashed grave, full of dead mens bones.
Where did Witness Lee ever refer to Jehovah's Witnesses?
I am using the LSM search engine to find some sample quotations from books by Witness Lee
Notice how the Apostle John says such people should be treated: “Receive him not into your house, neither bid him God-speed: For he that biddeth him God-speed is partaker of his evil deeds” (2 John 10- ...[text shortened]... s a dead body!
(Seven Mysteries in the First Epistle of John, Chapter 9, Section 2)
The sheep know the voice of the fine shepherd and they will not follow another.
Originally posted by RJHindsI am convinced that this Lee is a charlatan. As I suspected he is is intent on emphasizing the self, same old Jesus in me jive talk. Christianity was never about self, it was always about self sacrifice, how he could have so thoroughly missed the point is amazing. What did he do for a living? Fleece the flock no doubt?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoI-6lQFIE
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieit means he has not gone to people of the nations as directed by Christ but simply has gathered together people that are already 'christians'.
Its not very difficult to understand once you think about it. Here is a song for him and his legacy, 'Can i get a witness', because waiting for his organisation to witness to me could be a long wait.
https://soundcloud.com/simon-greenhill-2/motown-can-i-get-a-witness[/b]
When Witness Lee and 200 hundred other believers from the churches in China migrated to Taiwan because of the Communist take over there was a dramatic result of their gospel preaching.
They went from 200 or 300 to 30,000 believers within a very few years.
Were some of them already Christians? Probably some were.
They were getting fed spiritually for the first time perhaps.
So following where the nourishment was coming from they were added to the church life.
Of course the local churches have been founded on all five continents. And to criticize someone from PERSONALLY not going to every nation is absurd.
The evangelists and teachers and such gifted members teach the saints to do what they do. They do not necessarily have to GO to New Zealand or Mexico or Russia in order to teach others to preach the gospel.
However, though we are talking about an elderly man who died around somewhere over the age of 90 years old, Lee actually visited many countries if not every country.
So your criticism is ludicrous. What one person has gone to every country on earth to preach and teach the Gospel ? Maybe a few have personally done this. But the Bible says that the WORD grew and became strong. And that is what is important to take place around the globe.
And Paul preached the full spectrum of the "unsearchable riches of Christ AS the gospel". So initial salvation is not the sole and only point of the gospel.
English Standard Version
To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
New American Standard Bible
To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
If some famished and undernourished Christian responds to "the unsearchable riches of Christ as the gospel" that is quite marvelous. Many "cultural" Christians not only get saved but go from dormant undernourished believers to those diving more into deeper enjoyment of Christ.
I would not want to be in your shoes before God, teaching anyone, Christian or nonChristian, the heretical doctrines of denying Christ's deity.
"They went out from us but they were not of us" the New Testament rightly says of your brand of gospel teaching.
The Apostle John said we should not receive teachers like you into our homes or wish you God-speed. This is why I challenge JWs at the doorstep to kneel with me and confess Jesus as Lord if they are Christians.
Never once have I gotten one to comply though I have done this about three or four times. You see they don't believe this applies to them now or forever -
"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." ( Philippians 2:10,11)
Whatever you're bringing to all nations, whether aquariums or something else, it is not God's true Gospel of Christ concerning Jesus. It is "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4)
New American Standard Bible
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received ... (2 Cor. 11:4) ,
Originally posted by sonshipHow did he get these believers? by threatening to sue them if the didn't join his organisation? by procuring their church property? Perhaps they come with the property?
[b]it means he has not gone to people of the nations as directed by Christ but simply has gathered together people that are already 'christians'.
When Witness Lee and 200 hundred other believers from the churches in China migrated to Taiwan because of the Communist take over there was a dramatic result of their gospel preaching.
They went from ...[text shortened]... have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received ... , [/quote][/b]
Neither he nor his church has gone to people of all the nations in direct obedience to Christ's commands. No one has, only Jehovahs Witnesses. That is the fact of the matter.
The more I find out about this Lee the more seedy it becomes. He is teaching that there is a mingling of man and god that men can become like God. Now where did I hear that before, oh you, it was in the bible, a certain satanic element stated it to Eve - 'you will become just like God'. You have no basis for your judgement of the beliefs of others, your teachings are extra biblical and unscriptural, your leader a seedy and corrupt charlatan.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
how did he get these believers? by threatening to sue them if the didn't join his organisation? by procuring their church property?
how did he get these believers? by threatening to sue them if the didn't join his organisation? by procuring their church property?
Okay, now you want to talk about so-called litigious Christians.
Since you may not do the research yourself, I will give you the basics of the lawsuits.
No lawsuit of any of the local churches or of the co-workers involves doctrinal disagreements of critics. They involve slanderous and libelous reports of misconduct and immorality which did not occur.
You see, in many countries including the US, you are free to write that a certain group has heretical doctrines. That is completely fair and a matter of free speech. You may be right or wrong. But you are permitted to write about that.
When you begin to make up false charges of behavior that is another matter.
I can say "Robbie's group teaches some wrong doctrines. Here is what they are .... Now I will show you why these doctrines are wrong." That is one thing.
If I make up that Robbie's group practiced incest, Robbie's group robbed money, Robbie's group tortured people, etc." and these lies cannot be substantiated, that is "LIBEL". That is illegal. That is practicing SLANDER and facts, if cannot be produced to substantiate such fictitious accusations can land you in a court of law.
So some lawsuits were made when ALL, and I say ALL attempts to contact and talk with false accusers even through lawyers, could not be conducted.
It is illegal to make up lies about behavior. You can write all the nasty things you want about a person's teaching. You cannot cross the line and try to augment your campaign of criticism with false accounts about things which did not happen.
Got it now ? And it is telling when people cannot validate doctrinal criticisms that they then resort to making up libelous slanders about behavior.
And the ones making the charge of the local churches being litigious ironically first said they were a cult of non-believers. Then when their slanders about false occurences land them in court, lo and behold, THEN the tune changes to - "But Christians should not take other Christians to a court of law. That is being litigious."
So the nonChristians suddenly graduate to "brothers" taking other brothers to court. That is the backround to the charge of the local churches being litigious.
Repeating False Witness of the Local Churches [sic] Being Litigious - A Response to Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes’ Defense of the “Open Letter” and Critique of the Christian Research Journal’s Reassessment of the Local Churches [sic]
http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/Geisler-Rhodes/false-witness-re-litigiousness.html
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The more I find out about this Lee the more seedy it becomes. He is teaching that there is a mingling of man and god that men can become like God. Now where did I hear that before, oh you, it was in the bible, a certain satanic element stated it to Eve - 'you will become just like God'. You have no basis for your judgement of the beliefs of others, your teachings are extra biblical and unscriptural, your leader a seedy and corrupt charlatan.
These are not arguments against Lee. These are arguments stemming from disbelief of the word of God.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
What is that if not a mingling of the Lord with man ?
How can man's human spirit and the Spirit of God become one united spirit - "one spirit" without a mingling of God and man ?
Explain.
25 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipI can join in spirit with soccer fans in cheering on my time, there is nothing mystical about it. No this has to do with Lee and his charlatanism.
[quote] The more I find out about this Lee the more seedy it becomes. He is teaching that there is a mingling of man and god that men can become like God. Now where did I hear that before, oh you, it was in the bible, a certain satanic element stated it to Eve - 'you will become just like God'. You have no basis for your judgement of the beliefs of others, y ...[text shortened]... become one united spirit - [b]"one spirit" without a mingling of God and man ?
Explain.[/b]
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25 Apr 15
Come on. How can my spirit and the Holy Spirit become "one spirit" without mingling ?
For two or more things to be "mingled" together means that they are combined in such a way that each component remains distinguishable in the combination.
In the typology of the Old Testament for God incarnating in man, the word "mingled" was used in the book of Leviticus.
You have never heard of the typology in the Meal Offering - Fine flour MINGLED with oil.
What is this if not a mingling of God and man ?
"In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me and I in you." (John 14:20)
He is in the Father, the Christians are in Him, and He is in them.
That is mingling of God and man.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I can join in spirit with soccer fans in cheering on my time, there is nothing mystical about it. No this has to do with Lee and his charlatanism.
I can join in spirit with soccer fans in cheering on my time, there is nothing mystical about it. No this has to do with Lee and his charlatanism.
You are not using the term "spirit" as the New Testament means it in that passage of First Cor. 6:17.
The "spirit of a soccer game" is not the spirit of a human being. And neither is it near "the Lord of the Lord" or "the Lord".
The spirit of man within him is a living and organic spiritual matter. And the Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17)
So "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) , you may say is mystical. But it is not at all like "the spirit of a soccer game" or "the spirit of a baseball team" as a kind of attitude.
The spirit of man was what God breathed into man in man's creation. It is a living component of man. (Genesis 2:7) .
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Paul's last word written in the New Testament is about the Lord being with Timothy's regenerated human spirit.
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Timothy 4:22)
A person's last word is often his most important matter he wants to make. Paul's last word in the NT and to his co-worker Timothy was that the Lord Jesus was with his spirit.
That is a MINGLING of the Lord with Timothy.
That is a mingling of God with man - whatever man has received the Lord.
You fail Robbie.
Since "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" it is a precious truth of Scripture that the Lord is with that one's spirit.
25 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipSorry my bad, I forgot I was addressing a God-man.
Paul's last word written in the New Testament is about the Lord being with Timothy's regenerated human spirit.
[b]"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Timothy 4:22)
A person's last word is often his most important matter he wants to make. Paul's last word in the NT and to his co-worker Timothy was that the Lord Jesus was with h ...[text shortened]... is one spirit" [/b] it is a precious truth of Scripture that the Lord is with that one's spirit.[/b]
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[quote] The more I find out about this Lee the more seedy it becomes. He is teaching that there is a mingling of man and god that men can become like God. Now where did I hear that before, oh you, it was in the bible, a certain satanic element stated it to Eve - 'you will become just like God'. You have no basis for your judgement of the beliefs of others, y ...[text shortened]... become one united spirit - "one spirit" without a mingling of God and man ?
If God did not want man to be like God then God would not have made man in the image and likeness of God.
It is HOW man becomes like God which is either God's way or some other way.
God's way for man to become like God - to eat of the tree of life.
Satan's way for man to become like God - eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Christ is God's life. And redeemed man receives Christ that eventually "we will be like Him" (1 John 3: 2)
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou are addressing a Godman.
Sorry my bad, I forgot I was addressing a God-man.
And if God does not want Christians to be like Him then He would not be transforming them into the same image from glory to glory.
"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17,18)
God transforms the regenerated humans into the same image of Christ so that man would be like God.
He is going to MARRY a corporate people in the end. WHY? He marries the New Jerusalem because she has become LIKE Him. She MATCHES what Christ is. And Christ is God/man.
So the climax city New Jerusalem which God is creating and building matches Him as a counterpart. He wants to marry for eternity that which is LIKE God. Otherwise how could that holy city be called Christ's Bride and Wife. She must be like Him.
She is like Him not by taking the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was Satan's way to be rebellious and "like" the Most High.
The New Jerusalem becomes a matching counterpart of God by the tree of life. That is by taking in Christ as life and being filled with life. This is according to God's original intention - that man partake of "the tree of life".
So it is God's eternal purpose that man be LIKE God by receiving God into him as divine and eternal life.
So your accusations show that you are still very ignorant. You need your spiritual eyes opened.
25 Apr 15
Originally posted by sonshipWow you have made yourself equal to God, you have become just as Satan stated, 'just like God'. I bow to the God-man Jaywill. Forgive me master I am a poor sinner I should have recognised your divinity sooner. 😵
You are addressing a Godman.
And if God does not want Christians to be like Him then He would not be transforming them into the same image from glory to glory.
[b]"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, and bei ...[text shortened]... So your accusations show that you are still very ignorant. You need your spiritual eyes opened.