Originally posted by sonshipOne liners from Christ and Paul is worth volumes from false teachers like yourself.Jesus said that you must have good works otherwise you will not get salvation. Read Matt 25.
This is your best argument. But it is not quite good enough. But you are into one liners now.
Matthew 25:31-46 is a strong argument for some being eternally saved though they were ignorant of who Jesus Christ WAS.
It is not a strong arg ...[text shortened]... hat is a time of transition between the age of grace and the millennial kingdom. I can prove it.
Originally posted by Rajk999If you will not hear Moses and the prophets and you will not believe if Christ rises from the dead, you will end up as the rich man.
The story is clear. If you are a selfish greedy bastard who cannot help the poor and do good works you will end up in eternal torment.
Close. But not strong enough to support your salvation through law keeping.
Originally posted by sonshipIt is not salvation through law-keeping.
If you will not hear Moses and the prophets and you will not believe if Christ rises from the dead, you will end up as the rich man.
Close. But not strong enough to support your salvation through law keeping.
It is salvation through following the commandments of Jesus Christ. That is what the entire Bible about.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I will not exchange chit and chat one liners for some of these issues which involve more substantial analysis.
It is not salvation through law-keeping.
It is salvation through following the commandments of Jesus Christ. That is what the entire Bible about.
I could quote the bible that money solves everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19) and duck away thinking I have really done something great.
I will at some time go through some of these one line zingers you think establish your case and show that they do not. Maybe latter.
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Originally posted by RJHindsI went through a rather detailed analysis of his treatment of Hebrews 6. What would impress me more is Rajk999 taking each point or even the main points and showing why my explanation is wrong.
Very blunt, but good summation.
The Instructor
He kept quiet for a while. Now he's back with little chat room like one liners. If he can't deconstruct the problems I expounded on why his view of Hebrews 6 is wrong, what is so impressive about this "business as usual" repeating assertions ?
Originally posted by sonshipNothing so impressive there. I was referring to his quick summation of the rich man and the begger in Luke. It was good, not excellent.
I went through a rather detailed analysis of his treatment of [b]Hebrews 6. What would impress me more is Rajk999 taking each point or even the main points and showing why my explanation is wrong.
He kept quiet for a while. Now he's back with little chat room like one liners. If he can't deconstruct the problems I expounded on why his view of Hebrews 6 is wrong, what is so impressive about this "business as usual" repeating assertions ?[/b]
The Instructor
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Rajk999 looks to Luke 16 to prove New Testament salvation is by law keeping.
Read the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16
Some people refer to verse 25 as the reason the rich man is in torment and Lazarus is in salvation -
" ... Abraham said, Child , remember that in your lifetime you fully received your good things, and Lazarus likewise bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish."
This verse is just comparing the difference in the condition of the two men before and after death. Abraham does not come to the reason for their perdition and salvation until verse 29.
Verse 29 - "But Abraham said, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them."
From verse 29 we can see that the rich man's perdition was due to not obeying the words of Moses and the prophets. And the reason for Lazarus' salvation was because of his heeding the words of Moses and the prophets.
What is meant by the words of " Moses and the prophets? "
In the same book we see Jesus walking with His disciples after His resurrection. He was with two disciples on the road to Emmaus comforting them -
"And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, He explained to them clearly in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself" (Luke 24:27) Then in verses 44 - 46 it also says "And He said to them, These are My words which I spoke to you while I was with you, that all the things written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and Psalms concerning Me must be fulfilled. Then He opened their mind to understand the Scriptures; and He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day."
Jesus in His teaching also spoke the words of Moses and the prophets. The rich man had perished because he had rejected the Savior who had died and rose for him. Lazarus was saved because he received the Savior who died and rose for him.
Today we have from God the Holy Bible. One Man came back from the dead - the Lord Jesus Who died on the cross for us. God expects us to believe His word. He does not do extra spectacular things to convince us that His word is true. The sinners are not struck down instantly. The blasphemer is not cut off the moment he blasphemes. Lightning does not strike the one posting here insulting Jesus Christ and saying God does not exist.
God simply provides us with His word. Because people are not instantly punished they are often made bold to continue to be sinful and not believe in Christ the Savior. God does not arrange the stars in the sky to spell out the words "There is a God!" Today God does not use extra spectacular evidence. He expects us to believe His word in the Bible.
The rich man wanted someone to go to his remaining brothers from the grave. - "But he [Abraham] said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead" (Luke 16:31) . This revelation tells us that people who do not believe the words of Moses and the prophets will also not believe if someone rises from the dead. If people do not accept the testimony of the word of God, the Bible, they will not believe even if someone rises from the dead.
Originally posted by sonshipIt is true that nothing is said about Lazarus heiping the poor and doing good works. After all, he was a poor beggar himself. But Paul says we are saved by our faith and not by works, lest any should brag, possibly about how caring and unselfish they are compared to some other person.
Rajk999 looks to Luke 16 to prove New Testament salvation is by law keeping.
Read the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16
Some people refer to verse 25 as the reason the rich man is in torment and Lazarus is in salvation -
[b]" ... Abraham said, Child , remember that in your lifetime you fully received your good things ...[text shortened]... timony of the word of God, the Bible, they will not believe even if someone rises from the dead.
The Instructor
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Originally posted by sonshipIf you are of the impression that anyone needs to impress you then you are sadly mistaken. Your detailed analysis which goes off on a tangent and off the point and arrives at a totally different conclusion from what was intended is an insult to the writers of the Bible. Anyone who reads what you write can see that. I suspect though that nobody reads your writing. I used to read some of it a while back but I stopped totally and dont even read beyond a couple sentences because you are apostate and anti-Christ. SO I have no time nor the inclination to rebuff every foolish line that you write.
I went through a rather detailed analysis of his treatment of [b]Hebrews 6. What would impress me more is Rajk999 taking each point or even the main points and showing why my explanation is wrong.
He kept quiet for a while. Now he's back with little chat room like one liners. If he can't deconstruct the problems I expounded on why his view of Hebrews 6 is wrong, what is so impressive about this "business as usual" repeating assertions ?[/b]
How do I know that you are anti-Christ? I remember you using Romans 10:9 as your proof of your perverted 'once saved always saved' garbage doctrine and your first comment was along the lines that 'NO LOVE IS REQUIRED'
Thats your doctrine... NO LOVE AND NO CHARITY... TALK ONLY You are preaching the opposite of what Christ preached. Christ went into great detail about the requirement for love and charity as a condition for his disciples and entry into his kingdom... ie love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Here you are preaching your corrupt evil foolishness that no love is required. Just accept Christ with your mouth and you will be saved.
Well .. you are right about one thing; God will not strike you down right away. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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Originally posted by RJHindsWe should also notice in the Gospel of Luke that when Jesus died He said He established the "new covenant" -
It is true that nothing is said about Lazarus heiping the poor and doing good works. After all, he was a poor beggar himself. But Paul says we are saved by our faith and not by works, lest any should brag, possibly about how caring and unselfish they are compared to some other person.
The Instructor
"And simarly the cup after they had dined, saying, This cup is the new convenant established in My blood, which is being poured out for you." (Luke 22:20)
The "new covenant" Jesus is the new covenant prophesied to come by Jeremiah the in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
These words are included in that prophecy -
"Indeed, days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day I took them by their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke ..."
The "new covenant" will not be like the old or previous covenant God made with the Law of Moses at Mount Sinai. Part (not all) but part of this new covenant is -
" ... for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." (v.34)
Both Lazarus and the rich man had sins. In the teaching only the particular sins of the rich man are mentioned. However, the new covenant includes that God would forgive man's sins and remember them no more. They are JUDGED on the cross when Jesus poured out His blood.
"This cup is the new covenant established in My blood, which is being poured out for you."
None of this means the Christian should not walk by the Holy Spirit and live righteously in greater and greater degrees. This does mean that the blood cleanses us from all sins and God promises that He will remember them no more. So we can have eternal life.
Do not be worried. Our wise Father still has ways to discipline and correct His sluggish children who linger in their old manner of life.
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thats your doctrine... NO LOVE AND NO CHARITY...
What I have been debating is not whether a Christian should be charitable or not. It is that being charitable does not earn him eternal life.
Could you please QUOTE me in this discussion where I excuse Christians that they should not love or show generosity ?
WHERE did I establish that the Christian should not live this way ?
I did not. Nor have I taught that there are no consequences for being defeated by sins in our daily walk.
You are shifting the argument to what it is NOT.
The refutation I write about is the supposed losing of the GIFT of eternal life and perishing because of not growing in the divine life. That is the issue and you should not dishonestly morph the issue into a strawman argument.
I elaborated on your verse TO CHRISTIANS, that certain lifestyles will cause a believer not to be able to inherit the kingdom of God. It is YOU that reads into that "Lose eternal life, lose eternal redemption, and perish in the lake of fire."
Here you are preaching your corrupt evil foolishness that no love is required. Just accept Christ with your mouth and you will be saved.
Rajk999 wants to change the Bible. Where it says "If you confess with your mouth Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" Rajk999 would correct God to tell Him that He should have said "you MAY NOT be saved" .
One medicine for every problem - tell the Christian that his eternal life will be taken away. He will be un-born again.
No one can be unborn once he is born either naturally or spiritually.