03 Nov 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie there's a massive difference between what you are talking about and what Galvo is saying. Come on you're not that stupid.
Noobster as a father you are responsible for indoctrinating or guiding your children? regardless there will come a time when the child shall make their own decisions! or what are we to do, just let them fumble along as best they can, picking up what they can from their classmates?
You still haven't answered my question as to what you actually tell your child(ren) as to why dad won't be buying them any birthday or Christmas presents.
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03 Nov 09
Originally posted by Proper KnobI'll address this directly: when you tell children absurd things like "we don't celebrate birthdays" you are just planting then seeds of rebellion. The chance that they will grow up and cling to your beliefs are greatly reduced because anyone can easily see how absurd that is. However, if you're the parent, then you have that right. Just know that those children will never get those birthdays back.
Robbie there's a massive difference between what you are talking about and what Galvo is saying. Come on you're not that stupid.
You still haven't answered my question as to what you actually tell your child(ren) as to why dad won't be buying them any birthday or Christmas presents.
03 Nov 09
I have said numerous times before in this thread: "Let the kids have fun, they are not practicing any demonic things, they just have fun!"
But you seem all to think they are actually worshipping the devil or something. I don't get it? Is it forbidden for kids to play nowadays?
03 Nov 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Ullrlike you know anything about it? you remind me of this particular biblical verse, see if you can work out its application.
Ashamed of myself for being against children being brainwashed into and indoctrinated into a cult? Never!
(2 Peter 2:17-19) . . .These are fountains without water, and mists driven by a violent storm, and for them the blackness of darkness has been reserved. For they utter swelling expressions of no profit, and by the desires of the flesh and by loose habits they entice those who are just escaping from people who conduct themselves in error. While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. . . .
03 Nov 09
3 edits
Originally posted by TerrierJackactually no, this is nonsense, the vast majority of persons who are brought up as Jehovahs witnesses and who at some point leave that way of life, return, for to be sure, it is the best way of living. look how your sadness and sentimentality is prejudicing you Jack, what about all the family days we have, all the ceilidhs that we attend, all the surprise presents we give and receive, not because we have to, but because we want to! if i wanted to i could fly to California, and meet Galvy, he would be like a brother to me, even though i have never met him, this is something you people cannot comprehend. we have brought Arab and Israeli together Muslim and Hindu, catholic and protestant, Tutsi and Hutu. This is an international brotherhood, of which there is nothing on earth comparable!
I'll address this directly: when you tell children absurd things like "we don't celebrate birthdays" you are just planting then seeds of rebellion. The chance that they will grow up and cling to your beliefs are greatly reduced because anyone can easily see how absurd that is. However, if you're the parent, then you have that right. Just know that those children will never get those birthdays back.
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasFabs are we agreed that Halloween is an essentially pagan festival? if we are then can you understanding that perhaps to someone else, through the exercise of conscience , that many of its elements could be objectionable? we had great fun at Halloween, we just did not need to dress up as witches or skeletons and stuff to do it.
I have said numerous times before in this thread: "Let the kids have fun, they are not practicing any demonic things, they just have fun!"
But you seem all to think they are actually worshipping the devil or something. I don't get it? Is it forbidden for kids to play nowadays?
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by Proper Knobi ask them what they would like to do instead. this year we plan on going on holiday somewhere, although we are limited to where we can go because my wife is Pakistani national and doesn't have a British passport yet. its no big deal Noobster, the kids know that alternative arrangements shall be made, if my kid wants something, right now hes into lego, then all he has to do is ask and if its within reason, then its his!
Robbie there's a massive difference between what you are talking about and what Galvo is saying. Come on you're not that stupid.
You still haven't answered my question as to what you actually tell your child(ren) as to why dad won't be buying them any birthday or Christmas presents.
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasOk lets try this. Lets say the country you live in is one you dearly love and you've choose to support your country in anyway that you can and you would never show support for any other country.
I have said numerous times before in this thread: "Let the kids have fun, they are not practicing any demonic things, they just have fun!"
But you seem all to think they are actually worshipping the devil or something. I don't get it? Is it forbidden for kids to play nowadays?
But what if a country right next to you was your countries enemy but they had a custom that from your viewpoint seemed harmless. In fact it's one that even their children participated in. But it's one that goes way back in history that was originally part of a celibration of some war defeat over your country centuries ago.
But again now it's all harmless fun and especially for the kids.
So what would you do if confronted with the dicision of participating in it even if your country as a whole says it's ok but still you have this deep love and respect for yours. Would you go with the crowd and have dealings with this celibration?
I hope this makes sence but this is the way we feel about our love for God and the hate we have for anything to do with paganism and things he hates. We know there are things he somewhat leaves up to us to decide but that by no means relieves us of answering to him for them.
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe brotherhood you describe is the same in all small religions. I was in one and I know. But when I disagreed with their teaching. I was shunned .. some brotherhood. Thats the same in the JW 'family' .. its shallow and dependent on you being a mindless sychophant following after their false doctrines and false prophesies like a starving dog. Yup .. the best way of living :
... an international brotherhood,,,!
1. You cannot take a blood transfusion
2. You cannot be a police officer
3. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
4. You cannot serve in the military
5. You cannot buy girl Scout cookies
6. You must attend five meetings per week
7 You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness
8 If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower they will be shunned
9 You cannot read Christian literature from a Christian book store
10 You cannot be a cheerleader
11 You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
12 You cannot celebrate your birthday
13 You cannot run for or hold a political office
14 You cannot vote in any political campaign
15 You cannot serve on a jury
16 You are discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes)
17 You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
18 You cannot accept Christmas gifts
19 You must read and study Watchtower literature regularly
20 You must believe that only Jehovah's Witnesses can understand the Bible
21 You must believe that Angels direct the Watchtower organization
22 You cannot own or wear a cross
23 You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
24 You must go from door to door weekly to gain converts
25 You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
26 You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
27 A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
28 Men must wear short hair
30 Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
31 You cannot have a tattoo
32 You forbidden to use any tobacco products
33 Only officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
34 You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed)
35 You must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away evil spirits)***
36 You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material
37 You cannot use pet foods made with blood or blood products
38 You cannot join any clubs or sports teams
39 You cannot wear jade jewelry***
40. You cannot purchase Christian products (books, music, plaques, pictures etc.)
41 You cannot wear any Christian jewelry
42 If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders to be interrogated
43 Women must submit to Watchtower elders
44 You cannot support your country
45. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride)
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03 Nov 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieReally, well I'm glad you've got a verse from the Bible that reminds you of me. Of course I'm not Christian so I won't quote a verse from the Bible that reminds me of you. So instead I found this verse from the Havamal that fits you well:
like you know anything about it? you remind me of this particular biblical verse, see if you can work out its application.
(2 Peter 2:17-19) . . .These are fountains without water, and mists driven by a violent storm, and for them the blackness of darkness has been reserved. For they utter swelling expressions of no profit, and by the desires of ...[text shortened]... they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. . . .[/b]
"The ignorant boob had best be silent
When he moves among other men,
No one will know what a nit-wit he is
Until he begins to talk;
No one knows less what a nit-wit he is
Than the man who talks too much. "
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03 Nov 09
Wow - you can't actually be a good citizen? There is a special place in my imaginary hell for people like that. This sounds like the kind of of people who agree to car pool to work with you but they never drive. They just sit in the back seat looking out the window and won't even have a conversation with you. Why the heck do they expect to get a ride? Civil society is a 2-way street. Do they call the police when they get pistol-whipped and robbed? Do they drive on the highways? Do they take public transportation? Do they only recognize the humanity of their co-religionists and feel no compassion for anyone else?
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm not suggesting for one moment that you never buy your kids presents or treat them any different. I'm just curious what you actually tell your children as to why dad won't buy them any presents on their birthday.
i ask them what they would like to do instead. this year we plan on going on holiday somewhere, although we are limited to where we can go because my wife is Pakistani national and doesn't have a British passport yet. its no big deal Noobster, the kids know that alternative arrangements shall be made, if my kid wants something, right now hes into lego, then all he has to do is ask and if its within reason, then its his!
For instance if one of your children asks -
'Dad, why don't i have a party and presents on my birthday like every other child at school?'
What your repsonse is/would be?
03 Nov 09
Originally posted by Proper KnobHis response would be :
I'm not suggesting for one moment that you never buy your kids presents or treat them any different. I'm just curious what you actually tell your children as to why dad won't buy them any presents on their birthday.
For instance if one of your children asks -
'Dad, why don't i have a party and presents on my birthday like every other child at school?'
What your repsonse is/would be?
Now son .. let me explain .. Birthday .. The day or anniversary of ones birth; in Hebrew, yohm hulledheth (Ge 40:20) and in Greek, genesia (Mt 14:6; Mr 6:21).
The Hebrews kept records of the year one was born, as the Bible’s genealogical and chronological data reveal. (Nu 1:2, 3; Jos 14:10; 2Ch 31:16, 17) The ages of Levites, priests, and kings were not left to guesswork. (Nu 4:3; 8:23-25; 2Ki 11:21; 15:2; 18:2) This was also true in the case of Jesus.—Lu 2:21, 22, 42; 3:23.
According to the Scriptures, the day the baby was born was usually one of rejoicing and thanksgiving on the part of the parents, and rightly so, for “look! Sons are an inheritance from Jehovah; the fruitage of the belly is a reward.” (Ps 127:3; Jer 20:15; Lu 1:57, 58) However, there is no indication in the Scriptures that faithful worshipers of Jehovah ever indulged in the pagan practice of annually celebrating birthdays.
The Bible makes direct reference to only two birthday celebrations, those of Pharaoh of Egypt (18th century B.C.E.) and Herod Antipas (1st century C.E.). These two accounts are similar in that both occasions were marked with great feasting and granting of favors; both are remembered for executions, the hanging of Pharaoh’s chief baker in the first instance, the beheading of John the Baptizer in the latter.—Ge 40:18-22; 41:13; Mt 14:6-11; Mr 6:21-28.
While the expression “on the day of our king,” at Hosea 7:5, may possibly indicate a birthday party for the apostate king of Israel when the princes “sickened themselves . . . because of wine,” it could as easily be the anniversary day of his accession to the throne when similar festivities were held.
When Job’s sons “held a banquet at the house of each one on his own day” it should not be supposed that they were celebrating their birthdays. (Job 1:4) “Day” in this verse translates the Hebrew word yohm and refers to a period of time from sunrise to sunset. On the other hand, “birthday” is a compound of the two Hebrew words yohm (day) and hulledheth. The distinction between “day” and one’s birthday may be noted in Genesis 40:20, where both expressions appear: “Now on the third day [yohm] it turned out to be Pharaohs birthday [literally, “the day (yohm) of the birth (hul·ledheth) of Pharaoh”].” So it is certain that Job 1:4 does not refer to a birthday, as is unquestionably the case at Genesis 40:20. It would seem that Job’s seven sons held a family gathering (possibly a spring or harvest festival) and as the feasting made the week-long circuit, each son hosted the banquet in his own house “on his own day.”
With the introduction of Christianity the viewpoint toward birthday celebrations did not change. Jesus inaugurated a binding Memorial, not of his birth, but of his death, saying: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Lu 22:19) If early Christians did not celebrate or memorialize the birthday of their Savior, much less would they celebrate their own day of birth. Historian Augustus Neander writes: “The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period.” (The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, translated by H. J. Rose, 1848, p. 190) “Origen [a writer of the third century C.E.] . . . insists that ‘of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below.’”—The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913, Vol. X, p. 709.
Clearly, then, the festive celebration of birthdays does not find its origin in either the Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures. Additionally, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1882, Vol. I, p. 817) says the Jews “regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship . . . , and this probably on account of the idolatrous rites with which they were observed in honor of those who were regarded as the patron gods of the day on which the party was born.”
You understand son? Now go read your Awake Kids Magazine and stop bothering me ....
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