Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobs, can we agree that the kids don't give a r*ts *ss if it's pagan or not? For them it isn't religious of any kind!
Fabs are we agreed that Halloween is an essentially pagan festival? if we are then can you understanding that perhaps to someone else, through the exercise of conscience , that many of its elements could be objectionable? we had great fun at Halloween, we just did not need to dress up as witches or skeletons and stuff to do it.
So what you think doesn't matter, they don't ask you for permission, they just have fun! It's all in your head, not in theirs.
If god doesn't like it, he would send a bolt of fire or something to them. He doesn't, that's a proof enough for me.
Originally posted by galveston75No, that doesn't make sense, as you said. Your paralel is invalid.
Ok lets try this. Lets say the country you live in is one you dearly love and you've choose to support your country in anyway that you can and you would never show support for any other country.
But what if a country right next to you was your countries enemy but they had a custom that from your viewpoint seemed harmless. In fact it's one that even th ...[text shortened]... at leaves up to us to decide but that by no means relieves us of answering to him for them.
Norway has it's national day as the day they got their independence from Sweden. Do I care? No. If they dance on the Karl Johann all night long, because they feel a great joy, then why would I object? Who do I think I am to hinder them to express their joy? Superior to them? Well, I'm not. I'm just happy of their behalf!
And the same stands for the kids, having fun! They don't care why, they just have fun!
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Originally posted by Rajk999Okay now that was funny!
His response would be :
Now son .. let me explain .. Birthday .. The day or anniversary of ones birth; in Hebrew, yohm hulledheth (Ge 40:20) and in Greek, genesia (Mt 14:6; Mr 6:21).
The Hebrews kept records of the year one was born, as the Bible’s genealogical and chronological data reveal. (Nu 1:2, 3; Jos 14:10; 2Ch 31:16, 17) The ages of Levites, ...[text shortened]... ids Magazine and stop bothering me ....
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
As we are on the topic of the JWs and kids, there are cases where one parent has joined the JWs and the other has not or has left. This often results in divorce and the JW parent fighting for total custody since its the practice of JWs to sideline non-JWs. This often causes a lot of problems for the kids and borders on child abuse. Here are some excerpts:
http://www.freeminds.org/legal/custodynotes.htm
In the United States there are over 1,000 custody cases fought annually involving Jehovah's Witnesses. Most involve a young couple in which the mother is converted to the Witnesses, severely alienating the father, and resulting in a divorce. Because the non-Witness fighting for custody is typically the father, the author recounted primarily the difficulties encountered in these kinds of cases.
The child in these cases may claim that the decision to cut off all relationships from a non-Witness was made on his or her own, but as Duron (1991, p.18) observes, "through my own personal experience and through those of many, many former Witnesses I know who are also living daily without family relationships" this decision was made solely because of the teachings and direct pressure from the Witness organization. Few children would on their own cut off all interaction with a parent because the parent elects to celebrate Christmas or does not accept 1914 as the date of Christ's second coming.
This severe alienation from the non-Witness parent has been a critical factor in a number of decision to award custody to the non-Witness parent. The court correctly sees that if the custody is awarded to the Witness parent, the child's alienation from the non-Witness parent will likely be severe, if not complete. On the other hand, if the custody is given to the non-Witness parent, the chances are far greater that the child will be able to establish a decent relationship with both parents. As Judge Baskins stated in the Mendez cases: "To be forced to choose between one's religion and one's child is repugnant to a society based on constitutional principles" (Ward, 1988, p.23). A good example of this is found in a report made to the court in the case of Selvaggio vs. Adams (Macomb Michigan Circuit Court case 94 388 DC).
Q. What do the people at the Kingdom Hall say about Dad?
A. You're bad, and that you, um…you don't serve Jehovah.
Q. They say that Daddy's bad because he doesn't serve Jehovah? And what's gonna happen to Daddy?
A. You're gonna die.
Q. When's Daddy gonna die?
A. When paradise comes….At the end of the system.
Q. At the end of the system? What happens to you if you don't go to the Kingdom hall?
A. Um, I will die too…
Q. Okay. Who is going to paradise?
A. Only the people who serve Jehovah.
Q. And who are the bad people?
A. People who doesn't listen to Jehovah.
Q. What's going to happen to Daddy?
A. You are going to die.
Q. What if you live with Daddy, what's going to happen?
A. Me and you will die.
Q. Why are you going to die?
A. Because, if I live with you, I wouldn't serve Jehovah.
Q. So…if you live with Daddy, then you can't serve Jehovah?
A. Yea…
Q. And when do they tell you these things?
A. At the Kingdom [Hall]…
Q. And what do you say to them when they do that?
A. Um, I say my Daddy's not bad.
Q. Are you afraid to live with Daddy?
A.Yeah.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI do agree with you on one thing the kids really don't give a rats @$$ about the holiday if it has pagan roots or not. They just want candy & to have fun.
Robs, can we agree that the kids don't give a r*ts *ss if it's pagan or not? For them it isn't religious of any kind!
So what you think doesn't matter, they don't ask you for permission, they just have fun! It's all in your head, not in theirs.
If god doesn't like it, he would send a bolt of fire or something to them. He doesn't, that's a proof enough for me.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Well Manny Jesus said that the practice of his beliefs would cause not only that but divisions with all family members. Matt 13:12 & 13.
I Know someone who this happened to. His wife came home one day & said I'm a JW. Well the rest is history. They did end up divorced.
Manny
This seems to be a reaccuring complaint that keeps coming up about the Witnesses so why is that? Could it be as Matt 10:22, 23 & John 15:20 16:2 are describing? Also read Acts 13:50. 2Cor 6:3-5 & 11:23-25. Ga 5:11. 2Tim 3:10,11.
So could this be because we don't do worldy hollidays, take blood transfusions, vote or fight for the countries we live in? Did Jesus do any of these things?
I can personally say from my first hand experiances all thru childhood up till now that my beliefs have never beed accepted by most people I've known that are not Witnesses. I have been made to stand up in front of my classmates so all could look at me face to face and laugh at me while the flag was being worshiped. I have known many of the men from my congregation that have spent time in jail because of not fighting for this country. I personanly have witnessed professional doctors stick their fingers in my face and curse me for refusing to allow my sick wife to have a transfussion. Turns out she didn't need it an lived. So hatered for my beliefs????? Yes it's out there and I know because of following Jesus's teachings and have seen what he said does come true..............................
Originally posted by galveston75What about this verse .. Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Well Manny Jesus said that the practice of his beliefs would cause not only that but divisions with all family members. Matt 13:12 & 13.
This seems to be a reaccuring complaint that keeps coming up about the Witnesses so why is that? Could it be as Matt 10:22, 23 & John 15:20 16:2 are describing? Also read Acts 13:50. 2Cor 6:3-5 & 11:23-25. Ga 5:11. 2 ...[text shortened]... g Jesus's teachings and have seen what he said does come true..............................
There are religious fanatics who in order to feel that they are part of the prophecy of Christ wilfully create confict within their family using religion (usually petty religious beliefs like birthdays, and Christmas etc) to create the divide.
Originally posted by Ullrthankyou for confirming what was self evident.
Really, well I'm glad you've got a verse from the Bible that reminds you of me. Of course I'm not Christian so I won't quote a verse from the Bible that reminds me of you. So instead I found this verse from the Havamal that fits you well:
"The ignorant boob had best be silent
When he moves among other men,
No one will know what a nit-wit he is
Until ...[text shortened]... gins to talk;
No one knows less what a nit-wit he is
Than the man who talks too much. "
Originally posted by Proper Knobwell you know what our beliefs are based on the bible, what would you like to do instead, we can go to adventure planet, or undersea world, or the cinema, or ice skating, or swimming at the time capsule.
I'm not suggesting for one moment that you never buy your kids presents or treat them any different. I'm just curious what you actually tell your children as to why dad won't buy them any presents on their birthday.
For instance if one of your children asks -
'Dad, why don't i have a party and presents on my birthday like every other child at school?'
What your repsonse is/would be?
Originally posted by menace71interesting that you fail to make any reference to those marriages which were saved as a result of one member becoming a Jehovahs Witness, or those who have had practical help to overcome drug abuse, or alcoholism, or prostitution, why dont you mention those cases manny? rather than resort to a rather , one must admit, one sided argument? perhaps you knew all the facts of the case?
I Know someone who this happened to. His wife came home one day & said I'm a JW. Well the rest is history. They did end up divorced.
Manny
perhaps you knew of the physical abuse that may have taken place? perhaps you were able to tell and see what went on behind closed doors? i doubt it was the ladies fault, for as christians we are counselled to live with an unbeliever, we are counselled to apply Christian teaching, to be reasonable, to yield to wrath, in the case of lady to try to be supportive of her husband and respectful, even when he is an unbeliever, perhaps you can point out which one of these principles led to the break up of the marriage?
Originally posted by Ullrreally i found that it was rather reminiscent of those who have been kicked from the organisation because they could not cut it and thus embittered against it, must resort to every sort of vile lie and sensationalism. do you also find the tabloids amusing?
Okay now that was funny!
Originally posted by Rajk999old raji here could not cut it, probably because he could not keep what are rather high moral standards, so he got kicked out, that explains why he is such a bitter opponent and has to resort to apostasy. what a sore loser!
What about this verse .. Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
There are religious fanatics who in order to feel that they are part of the prophecy of Christ wilfully create confict within their family using religion (usually petty religious beliefs like birthdays, and Christmas etc) to create the divide.