07 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightThis is the very reason I don't believe in the gods of the religions. If a person is kind-hearted and always goes out of his way to help others; sacrifices for others etc, all this has no benefit at all in helping that person to secure a place in heaven. Not unless he is prepared to submit to god. In other words, as far as god is concerned, the priority on the list should be to worship him first. All other things are secondary.
The ONLY way God will not send you to hell is if you SIMPLY trust that He took your sins, and peid for them, on the cross! It is sooo easy! It has NOTHING to do with good works. Salvation is simply based on if you believe or if you don't.
Therefore if a person is very religious and submits totally to this god; he prays and praises the lord all the time; tries very hard to spread the 'message' from god etc. He reads the bible, but somehow misinterprets its contents (misinterpretations can happen when a book is not written in a straight-forward fashion; or the messenger speaks in parables all the time). Because of his wrong interpretation, he understands the bible of asking him to kill off the non-believers. So he goes around bombing buildings off and killing thousands.
So what happens when this joker dies? Well, it doesn't matter what he did to all those people. He will still go to heaven because he has so easily given himself to god. He has been salvaged. Salvation is simply based on if you believe or if you don't.
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by StarrmanFirstly; I tell you what starrman, God hasn't told me how He is going to work everything out in heaven. If you really want to find out, I suggest you study it in the Bible.
Okay, firstly, are you saying that different rewards await you in heaven depending on what you've done on earth? You don't just get in full stop?
Secondly, aiming for perfection is ridiculous and impossible. Aiming to make the world a better place is however worthwhile.
Secondly; The Bible tells us to be like Christ. Christ is perfect. I don't think God would instruct us to do something impossible. I believe it is possible.
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightI thought you had read the bible, shouldn't you know then?
Firstly; I tell you what starrman, God hasn't told me how He is going to work everything out in heaven. If you really want to find out, I suggest you study it in the Bible.
Secondly; The Bible tells us to be like Christ. Christ is perfect. I don't think God would instruct us to do something impossible. I believe it is possible.
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightAsafa Powell ran the 100 m sprint in under 10 secs. Therefore running a 10 secs 100 m sprint is possible for us humans. If you trained really hard, how long do you think it would take you to achieve 100m sprint in under 10secs?
Firstly; I tell you what starrman, God hasn't told me how He is going to work everything out in heaven. If you really want to find out, I suggest you study it in the Bible.
Secondly; The Bible tells us to be like Christ. Christ is perfect. I don't think God would instruct us to do something impossible. I believe it is possible.
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965The Bible would never require someone to bomb buildings, or murder people. The Bible instructes us to spred the word of God. Not kill off the unbelievers. What has made you think this of the Bible? What has made you think this of God? Have you ever heard of a Christian killing people in mass numbers? I heard of a guy who killed a doctor (an abortionist.)once. he obviously needed treatment. It isn't logical. If I'm trying to convince y'all that there is a loving, kind God who wants to save you, then how could the same, loving God require someone to kill those He is trying to save?
This is the very reason I don't believe in the gods of the religions. If a person is kind-hearted and always goes out of his way to help others; sacrifices for others etc, all this has no benefit at all in helping that person to secure a place in heaven. Not unless he is prepared to submit to god. In other words, as far as god is concerned, the priority on ...[text shortened]... . He has been salvaged. [b]Salvation is simply based on if you believe or if you don't.[/b]
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by StarrmanI do read the Bible, but I don't know everything. tell me someting I don't know. 😉 I can try and do a little research if you'd like!?!? I don't think it's really talked a whole lot about in detail. But I can see what I can come up with.
I thought you had read the bible, shouldn't you know then?
07 Feb 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965Haha! I'm not a sprinter. I couldn't tell you! But I wasn't really talking about physical feats. I mean as far as all that goes, someone that is a cripple can't very well run a 100m sprint if you know what I mean. I was talking about our character.
Asafa Powell ran the 100 m sprint in under 10 secs. Therefore running a 10 secs 100 m sprint is [b]possible for us humans. If you trained really hard, how long do you think it would take you to achieve 100m sprint in under 10secs?[/b]
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightSo define a perfect character then. I'd warrant it would be impossible to do so, since you'd have to be perfect to understand it and explain what it consists of; examples do not equal explanations.
Haha! I'm not a sprinter. I couldn't tell you! But I wasn't really talking about physical feats. I mean as far as all that goes, someone that is a cripple can't very well run a 100m sprint if you know what I mean. I was talking about our character.
Aiming to make your life and the lives of others better should be enough for anyone.
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightI am not saying that the bible instructs us to bomb buildings or murder people. I was just using that as an example (an extreme example, perhaps) of a possible misinterpretation of the bible. It is not something new that there are many ways to interpret the contents of the bible. In the case of Catholic, for example, the priest can't marry; whereas in other christians, the priests can marry. Yet they all base their teachings from the bible.
The Bible would never require someone to bomb buildings, or murder people. The Bible instructes us to spred the word of God. Not kill off the unbelievers. What has made you think this of the Bible? What has made you think this of God? Have you ever heard of a Christian killing people in mass numbers? I heard of a guy who killed a doctor (an abortionist. ...[text shortened]... you, then how could the same, loving God require someone to kill those He is trying to save?
Who knows, if I can somehow misinterprets the bible in the wrong way, then I might just end up killing people? After all, God once drowned everybody including unborn infants because... well, I don't know why a loving god did it. But what if someone interprets that to mean that God allows killing other people if "there is a strong enough reason for it".
Anyway, what is the answer to my question? If a person, due to his wrong interpretation of the bible, acts in a manner contrary to what god demands of us all; but yet stay loyal and worships god, is he then entitled to go to heaven?
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965Well, as to the question. It would depend on if the person believed that Jesus Christ came to earth, became a man, and then took the sins of men on His shoulders by dying on the cross.
I am not saying that the bible instructs us to bomb buildings or murder people. I was just using that as an example (an extreme example, perhaps) of a possible misinterpretation of the bible. It is not something new that there are many ways to interpret the contents of the bible. In the case of Catholic, for example, the priest can't marry; whereas in other ...[text shortened]... demands of us all; but yet stay loyal and worships god, is he then entitled to go to heaven?
I don't think the Bible could be interpreted that way hun.
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by StarrmanTo be like Christ would be perfection.
So define a perfect character then. I'd warrant it would be impossible to do so, since you'd have to be perfect to understand it and explain what it consists of; examples do not equal explanations.
Aiming to make your life and the lives of others better should be enough for anyone.
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightI don't think the Bible could be interpreted that way hun.
Well, as to the question. It would depend on if the person believed that Jesus Christ came to earth, became a man, and then took the sins of men on His shoulders by dying on the cross.
I don't think the Bible could be interpreted that way hun.
Is that a fact, or are you merely expressing your opinion? You'd be surprised on how far wrong people can get when it comes to interpretations.
So if, hypothetically speaking, a person believes that Jesus Christ came to earth, became a man, and then took the sins of men on His shoulders by dying on the cross, it doesn't matter what this person did during his lifetime on earth? As long as he believes, then he is assured of a place in heaven?
08 Feb 07
Originally posted by QueenofnightExpressing a believe or spiritual ideal on this forum always, ultimately ends up in a petty squabble. . .I have read too many to count now. . . It is not worth the bother. People do not respect other people's beliefs or opinions in this forum. The same arguments simply continue to reappear time in time out.
To be like Christ would be perfection.
08 Feb 07
While we are on the topic of interpretation, Queenofnight, let me ask you this:
When god drowned everyone in this world, except for Noah and his immediate family members (along with the animal pairs), how do you interpret that? Did that mean god deemed everyone else were too sinful and did not deserve to live? Only Noah and his immediate family members deserved to live?
When everyone else died in the great flood, presumably unborn infants also died by the millions I guess. Do you interpret that to mean god deemed that all those unborn infants did not deserve to live because of the sins of their parents? Or do you interpret that as god foresaw that those unborn infants would grow up to be sinful people. So he killed them off before they became sinful people, i.e. prevention is better than cure approach?
After the flood, god declared that he would not destroy humans this way again. What do you make out of that declaration? Does that mean that god will never destroy human ever again? Or did he only mean that he wouldn't drown us, but might just do it in a different manner, perhaps slam a big asteriod to explode the entire world?