Originally posted by @rajk999<<Faith and Works are two separate and distinct things.
I am making a distinction between the two only because there are some Christians who do that in a very subtle and deceptive way. The call it the New Covenant and new Dispensation, which they claim started only after Jesus left. Therefore they say that the Gospel of Christ is not applicable, and they further misinterpret Paul by saying FAITH ALONE gives eter ...[text shortened]... and Jude ,, all prepeated the very same thing.
Thats the whole Gospel of Paul and the Apostles
One can have faith and not works>>
This is completely false if you’re referring to genuine and sincere faith in Christ.
Just as you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, so you deny the power of God’s Holy Spirit Who indwells anyone who genuinely and sincerely accepts Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Saviour. Once God’s Holy Spirit indwells someone, that person will bear fruit unto righteousness.
Stop diminishing the power of God’s Holy Spirit. It’s bad enough you diminish Jesus Christ by refusing to acknowledge He was/is God in the flesh.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou’ll say anything to avoid answering difficult questions.
If you had reasonably good critical thinking skills, you'd provide something better than inane responses. Your questions / responses are little better than those of FMJ / becker / romans and below those of sonship even.
And because you believe in the false doctrine of “Jesus was just a man,” you’ve got to ignore a lot of difficult questions, not to mention a lot of verses and passages in the Bible, including Jesus’ own words, that speak of His deity.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI’ve asked you numerous questions that expose your doctrine of “Jesus was just a man” as false and unBiblical. You chose not to answer them and instead employed the same diversionary tactics you’re using here.
It's not like I don't engage with others.
I generally don't engage with you because since you provide little better than inane questions / responses.
You and Romans seem to operate at the same level - more or less. So it comes as no surprise that you and he "debate" - such that it is.
John the Apostle was described in the Scriptures as “the Apostle whom Jesus loved.” Here’s what John had to say about Christ deniers:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
(1 John 2:22-23)
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999I don’t understand the argument. Jesus the Christ clearly lays out the commandments. Few (if any) can perfectly, over their whole lives, fulfill these commandments—so there is grace, forgiveness. But that does not render the commandments moot; nor do the commandments render grace moot. And faith that is not enacted in the commandments—love God and love your neighbor as yourself—isn’t really faith.
Yes .. an important question : What is the entirety of the message of Paul and the Apostles. The whole message:
1. Faith and acceptance of Christ
2. Following Christ commandments - good works and righteousness
3. Awaiting the judgment of Christ.
4. External life in the Kingdom of God
Christian churches now preach 1 and 4. They have dispensed with 2 & 3.
The WHOLE MESSAGE = the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
There is no difference.
And your neighbor, as Jesus taught, is whoever needs you to be a neighbor to them. And love is what you do, not what you feel—or wish, or something else. Faith is what leads you (and enables you) to take that discipline on yourself.
So who is exempt from what? Maybe—instead of some minimally necessary requirement for salvation—one should be concerned with simply following the one they call “Lord”—as best they can. Then ask for forgiveness. Then do it again.
And let the theologically erudite (and those who think they are theologically erudite) argue over all the rest.
Faith, at bottom, means trust. If you trust in the Christ, then why all the insistence on getting the message just right? Surely, grace is offered to those who understand poorly, but who—love?
There is your neighbor: right there. The second commandment is like the first: you either act in love or not. However it goes, instead of self-serving insistence,ask forgiveness. But do not imagine that crying “Lord, Lord” exempts you.
Originally posted by @leilThat’s a great post.
I don’t understand the argument. Jesus the Christ clearly lays out the commandments. Few (if any) can perfectly, over their whole lives, fulfill these commandments—so there is grace, forgiveness. But that does not render the commandments moot; nor do the commandments render grace moot. And faith that is not enacted in the commandments—love God and love your ne ...[text shortened]... elf-serving insistence,ask forgiveness. But do not imagine that crying “Lord, Lord” exempts you.
1 edit
Originally posted by @romans1009Just so you know, I wasn't really arguing with Rajk, mostly agreeing with him. That's just the post I responded to. But thanks.
That’s a great post.
EDIT: It wasn't his argument that I meant when I said I don't understand the argument.
Originally posted by @rajk999They are in total harmony with one another.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the teachings pertaining to the Kingdom of God. The central tenet of this Gospel preach by Christ is what one needs to do to enter the Kingdom of God.
Christians now have another gospel. This is half of the gospel of Paul and they call it the gospel concerning the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Two gospels? Which is correct?
Why do we believe this?
Because the Church fathers literally assembled these materials from the actual resources that were being used by Christians everywhere. These were considered the reliable materials based on consensus, and very important and powerful dioceses like those in Constantinople, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria, and Jersusalem all assented to the content.
They also all collectively came together to develop the Nicene Creed ("the Symbol of the Orthodox Faith"😉.
To reject Paul is to say that the church fathers selected their texts wrong.
It casts the entire history fo Christianity in doubt.
Originally posted by @leilI wasn’t influenced by what post you were responding to or who you were agreeing with. My opinion of the post was based on it standing on its own.
Just so you know, I wasn't really arguing with Rajk, mostly agreeing with him. That's just the post I responded to. But thanks.
EDIT: It wasn't his argument that I meant when I said I don't understand the argument.
Originally posted by @leilSo who is exempt from what? Maybe—instead of some minimally necessary requirement for salvation—one should be concerned with simply following the one they call “Lord”—as best they can. Then ask for forgiveness. Then do it again.
I don’t understand the argument. Jesus the Christ clearly lays out the commandments. Few (if any) can perfectly, over their whole lives, fulfill these commandments—so there is grace, forgiveness. But that does not render the commandments moot; nor do the commandments render grace moot. And faith that is not enacted in the commandments—love God and love your ne ...[text shortened]... elf-serving insistence,ask forgiveness. But do not imagine that crying “Lord, Lord” exempts you.
This seems to be "Christianity" in a nutshell. Never mind that it's at odds with the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
1 edit
Originally posted by @leilFaith that is not enacted in the commandments is STILL FAITH.
I don’t understand the argument. Jesus the Christ clearly lays out the commandments. Few (if any) can perfectly, over their whole lives, fulfill these commandments—so there is grace, forgiveness. But that does not render the commandments moot; nor do the commandments render grace moot. And faith that is not enacted in the commandments—love God and love your ne ...[text shortened]... elf-serving insistence,ask forgiveness. But do not imagine that crying “Lord, Lord” exempts you.
You dont get to define these things how you like.
Faith that does not have good works is dead faith.
But it is still faith.
Jesus will judge who has faith and who has works, and who has both
They are two separate and distinct things
Read the book of James. A man can have faith without works. Did you read that?