The Fate of Innocent Unbelievers

Originally posted by KellyJay
Lets see what the Bible says not KJ or Rajk999, okay, let us do that instead of adding to
God's Word.

Matthew 7:13-15New International Version (NIV)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the ro ...[text shortened]... e are going
to find Christ, that is sad, Jesus deserves better from us than what He is getting.

I notice that just about every reference you post you tend to misinterpret... You quote this:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)

Who is it that Christ is saying would not find the narrow gate that leads to life? You think it is those who do not 'know Christ' because you attach great importance to the act of knowing Christ. Here is what Christ said just a few verses down:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Those who find the narrow way is NOT those who call his name Lord Lord or claim to know him.
Those who find the narrow way that leads to life are the once that does the will of God. Christ further explains with a parable

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matthew 7:24-27 KJV)

The foolish man just calls Lord Lord, The wise man follows Christ commandments.

Clearly there is a big difference between what you call
- having Jesus
- knowing Jesus
- a relationship with Jesus
- abiding in Christ

.. and what the Bible says about those expressions.

In a nutshell you place great emphasis on the outward appearances of knowing Jesus Christ
The Bible places great emphasis on the inward manifestations of Christ.in your life. That is how Christ knows that you know him .. by what the person does, not by what they say.

Christ will judge just who really knows him. Not all Christians know Christ.
Not all non-Christians do not know Christ as you assume.

Originally posted by Rajk999
But since you brought it up. The expression 'hearing or Christ' cannot just mean to simply hear the name Christ. It must mean that the person was preached to about Christ the way Paul said it, rather than just hear the name Christ.

In the time of Christ there were many to were preached to and because of their evil ways they avoided Christ. These are the ...[text shortened]... referring to here .. those whose evil ways caused them not to listen to preaching about Christ.

What about people nowadays? If I don't listen to preaching about Christ, it is not because of my 'evil ways'. If I don't 'believe in Christ' is it therefore because nobody had preached to me about Christ the way Paul said it?
Why do you think there were no people like me at the time of Christ who were not evil but simply didn't believe the claims of the preachers?

THIS IS THE FATE OF THE UNBELIEVING

"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

(Matthew 1:21 NASB)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

(John 14:6 NASB)

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

(Acts 4:12 NASB)

"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

(Acts 10:43 NASB)

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

(1 John 5:11-12 NASB)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

(John 3:16 NASB)

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(John 3:18 NKJV)

"But for the ... unbelieving ..., their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

(Revelation 21:8 NASB)

Originally posted by Rajk999
I notice that just about every reference you post you tend to misinterpret... You quote this:

[i]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthe ...[text shortened]... m. Not all Christians know Christ.
Not all non-Christians do not know Christ as you assume.[/b]

Yes, not everyone who claims to know Christ does, and these guys below did a lot of
works, no one says otherwise, but what they lacked was Jesus. You recall this scripture
ON JUDGMENT day they tell Jesus all the things they did in His name? There will be no
lies told on that day, Jesus does not deny they did those things, yet He did deny He
knew them!

Simply mouthing Jesus name, and making claims about Him isn't enough you really do
have to seek and find Jesus, and you really do have to do the works God has for you!

You do not get to do one or the other which is what you are preaching God without
Jesus through works.

True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law

Originally posted by KellyJay
Lets see what the Bible says not KJ or Rajk999, okay, let us do that instead of adding to
God's Word.

Matthew 7:13-15New International Version (NIV)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the ro ...[text shortened]... e are going
to find Christ, that is sad, Jesus deserves better from us than what He is getting.

So to be clear what you are saying here is this:

God creates man, the earth, universe, physics, everything
It goes horribly wrong, but God is in control
God redeems man though Christ (he died once, and for all remember)
Christ's' disciples go off to tell everyone the good news. Meanwhile billions of people die without hearing the good news. They get to heaven and Jesus is there, he looks at them and the conversation goes something like this:

"Err hello God, who are you?"

"get away from me and into the eternal fire where I will keep alive in burning agony for eternity"

"But why?"

"Get away, I never knew you"

"But we never heard of you Lord..."

"We'll never heard of you either and your name's not in the book so you don't get in"

"This seems a tad unfair oh mighty loving God who we know now has redeemed us because you loved us so much and to whom we have now bowed our knee..." (EVERY knee shall bow)

"Talk to the hand"

Etc etc.

Ridiculous in the extreme. What type of God is that?

Originally posted by divegeester
What type of God is that?

The type of God that has to kill his own son before he will forgive anyone? Seriously, it has always amazed me that people accept that as somehow rational behaviour. I would start a thread on it but I know its one of those topics that are off limits.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The type of God that has to kill his own son before he will forgive anyone? Seriously, it has always amazed me that people accept that as somehow rational behaviour. I would start a thread on it but I know its one of those topics that are off limits.

It really is a stretch of the imagination to assume humanity is intelligent, isn't it, especially considering how many billions of people have had their BS meter shorted out so quickly.

Originally posted by divegeester
So to be clear what you are saying here is this:

God creates man, the earth, universe, physics, everything
It goes horribly wrong, but God is in control
God redeems man though Christ (he died once, and for all remember)
Christ's' disciples go off to tell everyone the good news. Meanwhile billions of people die without hearing the good news. They ...[text shortened]... bow)

"Talk to the hand"

Etc etc.

Ridiculous in the extreme. What type of God is that?

It is hard to believe someone could be as ignorant and stupid as you act. Why don't you act like you have some sense and maybe a little sense will rub off on you and you might even become a believer and be saved? Try it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
It really is a stretch of the imagination to assume humanity is intelligent, isn't it, especially considering how many billions of people have had their BS meter shorted out so quickly.

Are you giving up on the stupid theory of evolution?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, not everyone who claims to know Christ does, and these guys below did a lot of
works, no one says otherwise, but what they lacked was Jesus. You recall this scripture
ON JUDGMENT day they tell Jesus all the things they did in His name? There will be no
lies told on that day, Jesus does not deny they did those things, yet He did deny He
knew them!
...[text shortened]... is teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law

Can you explain what you mean by 'they lacked Jesus'?

The passage is clear that these people that Christ condemned did claim that they know him and preached about him etc.

What do you mean by LACK JESUS OR KNOW JESUS?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you explain what you mean by 'they lacked Jesus'?

The passage is clear that these people that Christ condemned did claim that they know him and preached about him etc.

What do you mean by LACK JESUS OR KNOW JESUS?

Jesus' words not mine if you read the scripture I posted you'd saw this.

23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Originally posted by KellyJay
Jesus' words not mine if you read the scripture I posted you'd saw this.

23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So is it that Christ does not KNOW evildoers?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So is it that Christ does not KNOW evildoers?

You can read scripture as I can, can you not?

I pointed out to you it isn't a matter of picking one of two different ways to God, it is not
either through just faith or through works, as if you can pick either of those and be okay
since both choices are valid!

We cannot earn our way to God by doing good works, none of us would be good
enough. We would all fall short, and if we really cared we would beat ourselves up over
our all of our short comings.

As you and I agree (I believe) you cannot claim to know Jesus and not follow Him or do
the things God wants of us, why call Him Lord and not obey Him.

We come to Him for our righteousness taking His grace over all of our righteousness, and
we follow Him out of love. He is the propitiation for our sins, we owe Him all, He deserves
our lives for He gave His for us.

What did Jesus say about knowing them? You want to change His text?

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is hard to believe someone could be as ignorant and stupid as you act. Why don't you act like you have some sense and maybe a little sense will rub off on you and you might even become a believer and be saved? Try it.

Tell me more about the circumstances you claim justify a person being burnt alive for what they do or don't believe?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Jesus' words not mine if you read the scripture I posted you'd saw this.

23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Are you saying the groups "evil doers" and "those who have not heard of Christ" are homogeneous?