4 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI notice that just about every reference you post you tend to misinterpret... You quote this:
Lets see what the Bible says not KJ or Rajk999, okay, let us do that instead of adding to
God's Word.
Matthew 7:13-15New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the ro ...[text shortened]... e are going
to find Christ, that is sad, Jesus deserves better from us than what He is getting.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)
Who is it that Christ is saying would not find the narrow gate that leads to life? You think it is those who do not 'know Christ' because you attach great importance to the act of knowing Christ. Here is what Christ said just a few verses down:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Those who find the narrow way is NOT those who call his name Lord Lord or claim to know him.
Those who find the narrow way that leads to life are the once that does the will of God. Christ further explains with a parable
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matthew 7:24-27 KJV)
The foolish man just calls Lord Lord, The wise man follows Christ commandments.
Clearly there is a big difference between what you call
- having Jesus
- knowing Jesus
- a relationship with Jesus
- abiding in Christ
.. and what the Bible says about those expressions.
In a nutshell you place great emphasis on the outward appearances of knowing Jesus Christ
The Bible places great emphasis on the inward manifestations of Christ.in your life. That is how Christ knows that you know him .. by what the person does, not by what they say.
Christ will judge just who really knows him. Not all Christians know Christ.
Not all non-Christians do not know Christ as you assume.
Originally posted by Rajk999What about people nowadays? If I don't listen to preaching about Christ, it is not because of my 'evil ways'. If I don't 'believe in Christ' is it therefore because nobody had preached to me about Christ the way Paul said it?
But since you brought it up. The expression 'hearing or Christ' cannot just mean to simply hear the name Christ. It must mean that the person was preached to about Christ the way Paul said it, rather than just hear the name Christ.
In the time of Christ there were many to were preached to and because of their evil ways they avoided Christ. These are the ...[text shortened]... referring to here .. those whose evil ways caused them not to listen to preaching about Christ.
Why do you think there were no people like me at the time of Christ who were not evil but simply didn't believe the claims of the preachers?
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THIS IS THE FATE OF THE UNBELIEVING
"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
(Matthew 1:21 NASB)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
(John 14:6 NASB)
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
(Acts 4:12 NASB)
"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
(Acts 10:43 NASB)
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
(1 John 5:11-12 NASB)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
(John 3:16 NASB)
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:18 NKJV)
"But for the ... unbelieving ..., their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Revelation 21:8 NASB)
Originally posted by Rajk999Yes, not everyone who claims to know Christ does, and these guys below did a lot of
I notice that just about every reference you post you tend to misinterpret... You quote this:
[i]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthe ...[text shortened]... m. Not all Christians know Christ.
Not all non-Christians do not know Christ as you assume.[/b]
works, no one says otherwise, but what they lacked was Jesus. You recall this scripture
ON JUDGMENT day they tell Jesus all the things they did in His name? There will be no
lies told on that day, Jesus does not deny they did those things, yet He did deny He
knew them!
Simply mouthing Jesus name, and making claims about Him isn't enough you really do
have to seek and find Jesus, and you really do have to do the works God has for you!
You do not get to do one or the other which is what you are preaching God without
Jesus through works.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt really is a stretch of the imagination to assume humanity is intelligent, isn't it, especially considering how many billions of people have had their BS meter shorted out so quickly.
The type of God that has to kill his own son before he will forgive anyone? Seriously, it has always amazed me that people accept that as somehow rational behaviour. I would start a thread on it but I know its one of those topics that are off limits.
Originally posted by KellyJayCan you explain what you mean by 'they lacked Jesus'?
Yes, not everyone who claims to know Christ does, and these guys below did a lot of
works, no one says otherwise, but what they lacked was Jesus. You recall this scripture
ON JUDGMENT day they tell Jesus all the things they did in His name? There will be no
lies told on that day, Jesus does not deny they did those things, yet He did deny He
knew them!
...[text shortened]... is teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law
The passage is clear that these people that Christ condemned did claim that they know him and preached about him etc.
What do you mean by LACK JESUS OR KNOW JESUS?
Originally posted by Rajk999Jesus' words not mine if you read the scripture I posted you'd saw this.
Can you explain what you mean by 'they lacked Jesus'?
The passage is clear that these people that Christ condemned did claim that they know him and preached about him etc.
What do you mean by LACK JESUS OR KNOW JESUS?
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Originally posted by Rajk999You can read scripture as I can, can you not?
So is it that Christ does not KNOW evildoers?
I pointed out to you it isn't a matter of picking one of two different ways to God, it is not
either through just faith or through works, as if you can pick either of those and be okay
since both choices are valid!
We cannot earn our way to God by doing good works, none of us would be good
enough. We would all fall short, and if we really cared we would beat ourselves up over
our all of our short comings.
As you and I agree (I believe) you cannot claim to know Jesus and not follow Him or do
the things God wants of us, why call Him Lord and not obey Him.
We come to Him for our righteousness taking His grace over all of our righteousness, and
we follow Him out of love. He is the propitiation for our sins, we owe Him all, He deserves
our lives for He gave His for us.
What did Jesus say about knowing them? You want to change His text?